Is food poverty real?

[Leapfrog44]

Provocative title, sorry I know food poverty is real. I'm just not convinced about the extent of it.

I've cooked half a packet of dried chickpeas 50p which we eat fried with garlic, salt and olive oil. They're also delicious with pasta or with potatoes as a curry. Braised Puy lentils (60p) cooked with onions, celery and the bendy carrots left in the fridge.

And to really push the boat out an aubergine stew with onions and tomatoes. The 3 big aubergines cost £1.50. Tomatoes and parsley came from the garden.

I spent an hour cooking today including making a loaf of bread. With some rice or couscous, and some salad, what I've made will feed us for 4 nights.

We have apples too, foraged at the weekend. The windfall ones I cut the bad off and stewed them, the rest are good for eating. There are also elderberries, plums and a few late blackberries dotted around the margins of the city for anyone who can be bothered to go out and pick them.

I know not everyone has a garden but a very small space can be used to grow quite a lot. In pots I grew enough tomatoes, green beans and lettuce to feed us all summer. If I was less lazy or more skint, I'd also seed save, to ensure I can grow them for free next year. Many allotment holders would totally give up some produce in exchange for labour too.

So I guess I'm wondering if the increasing number of people who are in financial dire staits and find themselves needing to use food banks are in fact suffering from a lack of food education as much as lack of money? Our grandparents in the same situation would have cultivated every bit of earth with home grown vegetables and I'm sure would have been more resourceful and more capable of making do on very little.

Obviously there are very vulnerable people without the means to cook or to grow but surely not everyone experiencing 'food poverty' is in this category? I often wonder why at food banks they don't ask if recipients have access to a bit of ground (or a few pots) and give them seeds? Pulses and in season veggies are incredibly cheap and with a few quid you can feed your family really well if you know how to cook them. It's far better to cook a simple vegetable curry or dhal and eat it all week than have to exist on the pot noodles, tinned sludge, sugary cereals and biscuits that they're giving out.

Times are going to get MUCH tougher. Climate change and environmental destruction will soon jeopardise our food security and food banks will not be able to help everyone.

So AIBU? As a society are we actually getting poorer and hungrier or have we just raised a couple of generations lacking general resourcefulness, cooking skills and horticultural know how? Times are tough for increasing numbers but I can't help feeling that many of these people just don't have a clue how to help themselves.

Take in some ironing

The MN answer to money troubles

Jesus wept

People who suggest that have never seen me iron! 😂

Imagine you are a single person living off £73.10 a week.

Due to cuts to council tax benefit you are now paying £10 a week council tax.
You are in private rented accommodation so you have to top your rent up by £15 a week.
Electricity/gas £10 a week
Water £5 a week
TV license £3 a week
Sim only contract you need to be able to meet the requirements of your jobseekers agreement £3 a week
Bus fare £4 a week

You have £23.10 a week left. Every additional bus journey you make, to go to the shops or job interviews, reduces your income further by £4 a week.

This is not allowing for Hair cuts, clothing etc.

Now tell me good poverty doesn't exist?

harsh if we work more hours our WTC gets cut, DH can't physically work any more hours, he's 64 and in a very physical job, and I'm only allowed to work 10 hours pw before WTC gets cut, where are these mythical 10 hour pw jobs?

I don't own an iron or ironing board but if I was so skint I was wondering how to make my food/gas/electric last the week, an iron would not top the list of my priorities. Now would paying to print flyers to advertise my ironing service (£50 for 500 colour leaflets. I can't remember the cost of b&w) and I doubt it's as easy as clicking your fingers and people turn up at your door with £££ of ironing.

And wouldn't you need liability insurance? Mine costs me £50, up front, for the year.

How much are they anyway?

Taking in ironing to solve current/immediate poverty is almost as ridiculous a suggestion as eating roadkill. As for the other suggestions not everyone has a job where they can get promotions or extra hours, nor do they have colleges local or the money to attend. My 'free' college course cost me £50 in uniform before I even started then there was the £200 minimum I needed to pay on equipment before I could use the qualification. Jobs are scarce in some parts of the country and I'm sure those who need more money would already be looking for one but you can't just magic a new job out of thin air. It costs money to move. A quite substantial amount of money.

My kids had new trainers and went on holiday when we were in poverty. Their dad bought them. What their dad wouldn't do is pay maintenance, buy them food or pay my bills.

@Frequency - obviously a pretty dreadful situation. What are the options for making it better?
Options which range from action you have to take to action the government should take.
And if it's for the government to take, what are your suggestions for funding that.

We could make multi million £ global corporations pay their tax for a kick off.

@FruitCider and give me a reason why this person feels the need to sit on jobseekers week to week? Is there any real excuse in that scenario you described? Or is it someone who 'can't find a job' lol. Anyone who looks hard enough will find a job no matter how small/big

@FruitCider surely being on something like a meager £74 a week would motivate you to go out and work? Benefits is not there to live on it's there to help

What hasn't yet been mentioned that I can see is that most veg is very low calorie. Not only a problem in not being filling but contrary to popular belief calories ARE necessary ESPECIALLY for growing children and those in low paid jobs - which tend to be very physical! Also if you're this poor you're lacking money to heat where you're living too probably so your body uses more calories trying to keep your body warm and functioning!

Spot on, when we have (had) a child in the paediatric department I worked in who's admitted as failure to thrive (for any number of reasons), the nutritionists aren't rushing to encourage aubergines and lentils, it's usually Pediasure with a view to loading up the calories. That comes first, then we try and tackle introducing other types of food, usually with the help of play leaders, other HCPs etc.

As for 'why didn't I know?' I suspect you're existing in a somewhat privileged bubble but I'd also question do you not have any friends that are teachers? Doctors? Because they usually know. Do you not watch the news? Programmes like question time? Or panorama? Or dispatches? Even the newspapers will contain some info (even if they are claiming that the people they're discussing have only themselves to blame!).

I am a doctor. So is OH. This may sound absurd, but while we were aware that people do struggle we didn't know the full extent. As in the very specific details on this thread. You're right that we exist in a somewhat privileged bubble, this thread has proved that to me more than anything. I don't watch much TV (lack of time, usually a complete inability to concentrate) and I suspect it's my choice of newspaper (which I chose because I like certain columns and recipes) that has solidified my privileged bubble further. Worryingly, we're not taught about the extent of all of this, and I think we should be. If I think about it we get a very decent amount of training on the sociology of addiction, but this isn't touched on in quite enough detail. Most paeds training is ridiculously short. There are often brief allusions to the fact that people can't afford healthy meals (which is a useless statement that doesn't really reveal anything) but nobody has highlighted that people may lack cooking facilities entirely, that it's a toss-up between electricity for eating and electricity in general.

And, yep, that makes us both supremely ignorant. I wouldn't say either of our trusts are in affluent areas. I'm also fairly new to MN, and relieved I've seen this thread.

Based on what you've said, I think it's a good idea that we try to highlight this with those who we know work in clinical education. Or, possibly make it a part of our teaching sessions/journal club. I'll also watch some Panorama programs.

One thing that has worried me is the number of parents who've seemed adamant to remain in the department I worked in despite being given the option of home leave. I'm now wondering if the issues highlighted in this thread have something to do with that.

Anyway, as a general note, thanks to those who have shared their stories and given those of us who are ignorant a harsh dose of reality. I wouldn't say I would sit in judgement of those struggling and deny their experiences. I am, however, ashamed that I didn't know more about this and that my head has been firmly in the clouds.

I don't really agree with calling it food poverty and relying on charity food banks. Isn't the government embarrassed that one of the richest countries in the world is treating its citizens this way? Give people the benefits they need right away and provide more help to find suitable jobs that pay a living wage.

I totally agree that if people knew how to cook properly then life might be easier. BUT I also know that growing veg and having the time and money and equipment to cook for hours is in itself a privilege and a luxury.

Speedbird I think threads like this on MN have educated a lot of posters of the real meaning of poverty, me included.

Graphista Tell your MP/msp, tell them you're more likely to vote for a party that genuinely recognises those in poverty. No thanks, I 'm happy with who I vote for. I'm sorry but poverty isn't top of my list.

And it's an assumption I've never donated. You don't know me. I Don't spread my situation over the internet like some. But of course I've donated clothes, I've volunteered. In fact I gave my change to the Sally Army Man outside Greggs yesterday.

It's down to education (in life). If I was suddenly in this position I would prioritise a cupboard of spices, some pots and pans. I'd take in ironing if it was the only option. I know some people are unable to plan and organise like this but throwing more money at the issue won't solve the actual problem.

Of course there will be people who work full time who are homeless. But if you break it down and look at the facts anyone who is a waitress in London is never going to be able to afford nearby accommodation. So don't shout full time workers are homeless when there are other facts to consider.

Nurses, police etc get a London weighting and can access the Key Worker funding for housing. Funny how these things don't get mentioned.

Why would you take a job on a zero hours contract where you might end up with £0 per week, Bimgy? At least JSA is reliable.

This thread has made me realise that the best way of eradicating poverty would be to make every single person in our society live in it for a few months. Stop gap years and work experience and make every 18 year old live independently on £70 a week for six months, I bet it would be history within a generation.

Michael Portillo used to come out with the kind of crap posters here are spouting. Then he stepped into the life of a single parent on benefits. He'd run out of money halfway through the week. By the end he'd completely changed his tune.

The benefits system doesnt make it easy for people to come off benefits, paticularly with zero hour contracts , yoy come off benefits to work for a few weeks and then the woek dries up and it takes weeks for benefits to be reinstated, you can undrstand why people think why bother.

If I was suddenly in this position I would prioritise a cupboard of spices, some pots and pans. I'd take in ironing if it was the only option

Fuck me, your ignorance is astounding.

Well let me tell you that as a pretty good cook with a decent knowledge of food, I'd prioritize feeding my children with actual food. A spice jar in a supermarket is about £1...if I was skint, I'd buy a bag of oven chips with that £1 rather than a jar of cumin!

As for the taking in ironing shite....ffs! Where are you finding these clients? Do you have business insurance in case you accidentally burn someone's clothes? Does your ironing business from home invalidate you home insurance? Will someone grass you up for working cash in hand? Etc etc.

I don't think a lot of posters understand the grinding exhaustion that comes with having literally no money. Of course you'd rather buy chips than cumin!

HiHoToffee I'm pleased they exist. Even the responses that are truly ridiculous (i.e. the ones denying others' experiences) are useful in the sense that they've drawn out some very harrowing responses.

(Saying that I'd rather there wasn't a reason for them to exist)

Am I the only one feeling sorry for anyone, especially kids, having to eat potted road kill. It must be full of parasites for one thing.
Road kill, lentils and aubergines ffs kill me now!

Im skint right now i have mothing in the bank and no money untill monday ,Im lucky i have parents who can and often do help us out but if i didnt life would be much harder than it is my child has severe autism and has a limited diet i have to feed him what he will eat. Because if i didnt he just wouldnt eat. and i can cook but at the moment he lives mainly off noodle s

"A spice jar in a supermarket is about £1...if I was skint, I'd buy a bag of oven chips with that £1 rather than a jar of cumin!"
This.
Another thing people forget is that if you can only afford very little food, you can't risk stuff your children might not eat. And also if you are grindingly poor, you will crave comfort and something nice to eat.

I'm sorry but poverty isn't top of my list

It should be. Anyone of us could be in poverty at any time. 3 pay checks away for most of the country. Your lack of empathy may well come back to haunt you.