breastfeeding at 5 (and above?)

[cleopatracomingatya]

fully expecting to get some extreme opinions here.

www.thesun.co.uk/fabulous/7286609/mum-breastfeeds-five-baths-naked-normal-break-stigma/

This is the article (and the bath photo is disturbing enough for me as it is)

interested to see the general consensus on this. AIBU to think this is just... no!!

There is a very British view that you can grow a child inside of you but as soon as possible after it pops out, it ought to be as physically independent as possible. Baby in own room as soon as possible, wean from BF before 6 months, sleep training, etc. I'm not convinced Britain is raising the most well-adjusted, healthy, and happy children so maybe we ought to question some of our assumptions about the best way to parent

Very well said!!

I understand your thinking golightly while bf itself may not impact these things - the entire philosophy behind making your children as independent as possible from an early age, does. And that includes (but definitely not limited to) balking at a 5 year old being breastfed.

Fine to breastfeed to 5 or beyond.

Disgusting to have your 5 year old naked in a newspaper in this context. Total lack if respect for him as a child who will grow to an adult. A five year old cannot consent to this.

Disgusting to have anything to do with the Sun.

There is something going on in the UK and it seems to be focused on self-esteem and confidence

This is the main point of that article I think. Teach our children confidence and empathy and I think we could make a huge difference. Confident and empathetic people are less like to be bullied and less likely to bully. I look around and nearly every adult I know lacks in both of these. It’s a real shame. The philosophy behind raising secure children is to not force them to grow up before they are ready, surely?

There is a very British view that you can grow a child inside of you but as soon as possible after it pops out, it ought to be as physically independent as possible. Baby in own room as soon as possible, wean from BF before 6 months, sleep training, etc. I'm not convinced Britain is raising the most well-adjusted, healthy, and happy children so maybe we ought to question some of our assumptions about the best way to parent

Totally agree with this. I think we should all support those who wait to wean.

Absolutely would not put it in The Sun

Extreme extended breastfeeding has no physical benefits.

So now the debate moves on to the emotional benefits.

I can only comment on personal experience of some of my friends who allowed breastfeeding and co-sleeping to go on too long, past 2 years there are many threads on MN too. They all really struggled to get their kids off the breast, or to sleep independently. Also, sadly, they were all very needy, demanding kids. Now, this is a very small sample, and everyone is, of course, different. So, just an observation.

Why should 2 year olds sleep
Independently whev adults routinely don’t?

So, just an observation

Thanks for that.

While we're busting out our entirely unrepresentative anecdata, I know 2 four year olds who are still feeding, they are lovely children and have very strong bonds with their mums.

But what you or I think is entirely irrelevant. If the mums and children in question believe their are emotional benefits, that's what counts.

They all really struggled to get their kids off the breast, or to sleep independently. Also, sadly, they were all very needy, demanding kids. Now, this is a very small sample, and everyone is, of course, different. So, just an observation

So in the true vein of totally pointless anecdata, I breastfed to almost four. Had no trouble getting her off the breast (it was her decision) and never had trouble getting her to sleep!

She’s happy, well adjusted and very self-sufficient.

Just an observation, mind.

It may be a good idea for people to stop and think when they react to things like this. Why don't people challenge their own thoughts?
We just assume when we have a reaction that we must be right but very seldom ask ourselves why we are horrified?
It's obvious that not everyone thinks the same but surely that is down to our personal upbringing or experiences.
Don't judge ever, without questioning what your judgement is based on.
I've changed my view on things in the past by taking time to question my judgement.

I've changed my view on things in the past by taking time to question my judgement

Quite! And so have I!
But many people are too closed minded to think this way. They form views and never allow them to be challenged or questioned. It’s a shame as I think it helps you grow as a person.

Surely, you only struggle to get a child off the breast or to sleep independently if you try before they are emotionally ready?? That’s the whole point of natural term breastfeeding.

Here is my pointless anecdata - SIL has two DC and practised co-sleeping until the children were old enough to actually get excited about their own beds in their own rooms. She also did natural term bf. The children are happy, well adjusted, confident and empathetic.

People are saying that it is great for bonding etc however does that in turn mean that bottle fed children have bad bonds with their mums? And also that children can't bond with their fathers because obviously they can't breast feed them either?

I personally think children bond with their parents through a whole spectrum of things, breastfeeding isn't the only way to bond. If you can do so then great! But please don't try to say that breastfed children are better children than bottle fed.

@ethelfleda I see your point, but does this mean that children who didn't co sleep or breastfeed can't be any of these things? Surely these are just how they've been raised to be, and not the fact they've been breastfed...

The children are happy, well adjusted, confident and empathetic.

But please don't try to say that breastfed children are better children than bottle fed

Erm, no one is saying that.

But please don't try to say that breastfed children are better children than bottle fed

There’s been 13 pages of posts. Not one person has said that.

@LaurieMarlow @JacquesHammer look at my last comment

I haven't checked the stats but for me the notion that breastfeeding rates in this country are low seems completely at odds with my expierience. Where I live, every woman I know breastfed.
I'm a bit weirded out by extended breastfeeding but it's their choice.
Wouldn't be plastering it all over the Sun though, or indeed any newspaper. Something slightly voyeuristic about it, especially after watching the Paedophile documentary a couple of weeks back.

cleopatra no one said that bottle-feeding parents or those who don't bed-share can't bond with their babies. Those comments talking positively about breastfeeding/cosleeping were in response to the poster who talked about people "who allowed breastfeeding and co-sleeping to go on too long" which made for "very needy, demanding kids".

You're absolutely right that there's a whole spectrum of ways to bond, so no one should judge anyone for doing what they think is best.

No the WHO recommendation does not say a minimum of 2 years to breastfeed. It says up to 2 years of age and beyond.
In countries where food is not scarce, most mothers seem to stop breastfeeding between 18 months and two and a half years of age. We know where extended breastfeeding is more common that food is scarce, because WHO reports talk about poor supplementary feeding practices such as feeding 3-7 year olds on breastmilk and tea with lots of sugar. Where food is scarce it makes perfect sense to carry on breastfeeding as long as possible.
Breastfeed as long as you want, I really don't care. But from everything I have read I suspect 18 months to 2.5 years is the biologically normal age to stop breastfeeding if there is enough quality food available to feed a child.
But privileged children in western countries being breastfed for an extended period of time, is I suspect neither going to benefit or harm them.

Please forgive me - I’m certainly not saying that children who don’t breastfeeed or co-sleep are worse children etc - I’m very sorry if that’s how it came across. More that if you did do those things, it can be beneficial to not force the child to stop before they’re ready if at all possible. And this as one tiny part of a much larger ethos of providing emotional support to your kids.

Apologies if I offended anyone.

Some interesting info for those who say there is no benefit to natural term breastfeeding

Those who criticise extended breastfeeding say that the WHO advice is only for those in the developing world, with dirty water and inadequate nutrition, but in reality breastfeeding past infancy is the norm for our species and benefits children whatever country they live in.

Breastfeeding past infancy has significant health benefits for children and breast milk is also still a major source of nutrition well into the toddler years. According to breastfeeding information website www.kellymom.com in a child’s second year of life just 448 ML of breastmilk provides:
29% of energy requirements
43% of protein requirements
36% of calcium requirements
75% of vitamin A requirements
94% of vitamin B12 requirements
60% of vitamin C requirements

Natural term breastfeeding also has health benefits for mothers too, with the increased length of breastfeeding protecting against varying forms of cancer and osteoporosis.

Lastly, far from causing psychological problems and the clingy, dependent children that society fears when ‘extended breastfeeding’ is mentioned in hushed tones, children who are given continued comfort through long term breastfeeding tend to grow up to be incredibly secure and self-reliant

Very weird and very wrong.

I mean allowing it in the newspaper is weird and wrong.

Second year of life is not really extended breastfeeding though. And all those nutritional requirements could be met in another way.
I don't criticise extended breastfeeding. I simply say that where it is more common to breastfeed after 3 years of age, this is associated with poor supplementary food availability. So breastfeeding after 3 years of age is for most mothers who do so, a way to deal with a scarcity of quality food.
There is no research at all to show extended breastfeeding provides negative or positive psychological benefits.