breastfeeding at 5 (and above?)

[cleopatracomingatya]

fully expecting to get some extreme opinions here.

www.thesun.co.uk/fabulous/7286609/mum-breastfeeds-five-baths-naked-normal-break-stigma/

This is the article (and the bath photo is disturbing enough for me as it is)

interested to see the general consensus on this. AIBU to think this is just... no!!

blows kiss, hairflick and walks away

Well aren't you a charmer. If you or anyone else can point to documented studies where children's immunity is adversely affected by extended bf I'd love to see them.

Yes there is no research in western countries to show breastfeeding at 5 is of benefit to the child. Research in other countries shows breastfeeding at a later age is associated with underweight children. But that may be because mothers are more likely to extend breastfeeding when there is a lack of food.
I don't care if you extend breastfeeding or not to 5. But there is no proven benefit.

@LaurieMarlow oh because the replies to my scientifically sound comment were so polite and charming I don't give a fuck if you bf beyond the age of 2 or whatever, but maybe find the facts first. The journals your after have to be paid for. Google it yourself, relevant articles will come up and you can pay to read them.

@LaurieMarlow or were you just hoping the sun would do all the decent research for you?

As I've already said, I'm not an extended breastfeeder. However if I was, it wouldn't be for immunology reasons, there are lots of other benefits without that.

If there was solid evidence that extended bf adversely affected immunity, then that would be worth factoring in to people's decision making. As we only have your biology degree musings to go on, I think most people will be happy to stick to WHO guidelines on this one for the moment.

That is interesting. Didn't know that about antibodies.
Certainly reading worldwide, where supplementary food is not scarce, breastfeeding seems to stop in the majority of cases between 18 months and 2 and a half. Where it is longer it is usually in countries where food is scarcer and so breast milk is a free source of food. We can see this by reading WHO reports as the supplementary food fed is usually poor e.g. lots of tea with sugar.
This fits with WHO recommendations to breastfeed until 2 and with Koran to breastfeed until 2.
As I said again, I really don't care if some privileged women in the west breastfeed until 5 or beyond. With access to medical care and good supplementary feeding, I doubt it will have any real negative or positive impact on their kids. So do what you want.

Personally, I think breastfeeding from the age of 2 onwards is poor parenting. It's as if you're clinging on to your child and you can't accept that your role has changed.

At some point it's probably healthier for a child to develop their own active immunity rather than gain passive immunity from their mothers breast milk.

There are two main types of passive immunity from the mother - to simplify, IgG type antibodies via the placenta and IgA via the breast milk. IgG type lasts very roughly six months - those antibodies can interfere with just one or two of the vaccines we use (measles) which is one reason why the MMR is given at different times in different countries, but generally after 12m. The ‘best’ immune response comes if you give it aboit 15-18m but as the uk has a high incidence of measles (vaccinate your kids, people) the slightly lower response at 12m is much outweighed by the chance you’d be exposed before 18m.
In some other countries where vaccine compliance is higher, like Sweden, MMR is routinely given at 18m

The other type is IgA, which come via the breastmilk. They are far less effective than IgGs and generally give moderate protection against stomach and upper respiratory tract bugs.

Anyway, passive immunity via bf IgA doesn’t affect the development of the active immune system as far as I’m aware.

Disclaimer: also an armchair immunologist ;)
But a real scientist...

....blows kiss, hairflick and walks away....

Oh this really made me cringe in to myself. Oh dear. Please stick your pseudoscience up your arse.

Ok, so let’s alll stop doing everything or anything for our children unless it has a scientifically proven benefit or is only purely functional. Ok, everyone?

No, do what you want. Just don't claim there is more than personal choice to support it.

The mothers breast milk contains antibodies that will neutralise pathogens in your child's body. The child has not made those antibodies or associated white blood cells) and so if the same pathogen enters again they will have no immunity to it.

I think that’s mainly the IgG type which come via the placenta? IgA don’t really get into the bloodstream so much - they seem mainly to be a defence against tummy bugs and upper respiratory tract/ear infections.

IgG can interfere with vaccines (not all of them though) but IgA don’t in general.

Any actual immunologists around? or I’ll end up down a pubmed wormhole feeding the baby at 3am....

GinPink undergrad masters and a PhD in chemistry, both from RG unis since you're keen to know if you've found research on how extended breastfeeding compromises the development of a full immune system, perhaps you can link some abstracts? Yes, access to the full articles would be too expensive but the abstracts should provide some overview information. Especially if the journal is reputable. Seems like this would be quite important for people to know.

Interesting info re: the MMR vaccine

I just don't understand why she would want public pictures shown? I breastfed my second youngest until he was 3 and still bath with my kids if they want to join me but wouldn't take pics and have them everywhere for people to see!

The breastfeeding suspicion and hatred is unreal on this thread. Sad to find it on MN! People saying it needs to be expressed and fed via a cup. What on earth? Why?

Breastfeeding is a normal thing to do for your children and it doesn’t become awful at some mandatory age. And you genuinely cannot make a child BF who doesn’t want to.

I have literally no idea about immunology but surely it can’t interfere with immune development. Surely. Maybe not strictly necessary and of diminishing immunological benefit as time goes on but actively harmful? How would mammals have come so far...?

The bath photo is a photo of a sweet calm little moment between a mum and her kid as far as I can see. It’s not offensive.

Breasts are not offensive.

No it is not an offensive photo. But very ill judged to make it public.

Potentially ill judged yes, particularly the forums in question. But I’ve definitely seen more ill judged parenting 🤷‍♀️.

I don't think it's particularly "wrong" I do find it uncomfortable that rightly or wrongly, his friends/school mates can see this, forever in the papers. I'm imagining the child now in secondary school, on the end of endless taunts!

It is obviously not a reason NOT to breastfeed as it is most natural, but I think the mother's need for attention (described as awareness) is going to have a negative impact on her child.

I'm not going to be able to reply again tonight but just wanted to say I'm not offended in any way by extended bf. I am very pro public bf. Extended bf isn't for me, but I would support any mother sitting in the same room as me bf a child. I understand for some it isn't just based on the effect on the immune system. I would respect their decision and wouldn't dream of calling them names and being rude to them for their decisions, for whatever reason. I am shocked at the rudeness and hostility I've received.

What I am always shocked by is the hostility and anger shown to a scientific point of view. It is what I think makes many just see the crowd as uneducated and doing it for the wrong reasons. I'm not saying you are but this snapping and over the top anti scientific rage implies it.

@Bowlofbabelfish thank you for an interesting well researched counter. I wish I could find the articles I read back when I was deciding how long to bf my first child but I've been away from access to articles since having her.

ginpink I'm sorry you're disgruntled with me referring to you as an armchair immunologist, but your post was sprinkled with qualifiers such as 'I think' and 'probably' which are the language of pontification and not of scientific rigour. Others have presented opposing views also from a scientific perspective. It is surely not anti-scientific to question some rather significant claims, call for evidence, and reason out an alternative view? Anyway, it's an interesting area and if I get any time maybe I'll spend a bit of time on Google scholar or pubmed (both free to view abstracts). Or maybe I won't, it's not like I plan on feeding a 5yo anyway...

Personally, I think breastfeeding from the age of 2 onwards is poor parenting. It's as if you're clinging on to your child and you can't accept that your role has changed

Cool. Have you tried to make a child breastfeed that doesn’t want to?

The way I breastfed changed as my role changed. It was important to me that we stopped when DD wanted to. That’s what we did.

Personally, I think breastfeeding from the age of 2 onwards is poor parenting
You'd better get on to the WHO and tell them to stop recommending breastfeeding for a minimum of two years.

I actually think that picture is very beautiful-- nature at its best.

I don't judge, its whatever works for mother and child.

However, I think it's a bit naff to have it all over the papers. It's either natural and not noteworthy or it's not.

I haven’t read all the comments- just the first few pages- the child in the bath photo looks to be one and a half at most? Nothing wrong with that. Maybe she shouldn’t have gone to the sun- but there is absolutely nothing wrong with breastfeeding your child- I cannot believe the comments from some people. This is coming from a mother who was only able to express milk for a few months. Breastfeeding is so natural and creates no harm to those older than a few months. If it’s not your thing - fair enough- but why judge other mothers?