To ask how you would pronounce this name?

[Notss]

Hi all,

Sorry if this is the wrong place:

My little sister is expecting her first child and if it is a girl wants to call her “Sian”.

She sent it to me in a text and I replied “What - like See-Ann?” And she told me I was being daft.

So how would you pronounce such a name?

Or "Shaahn" But in RP "Sharn" or "Shahn" or "Shaan" are pronounced in the same way.

Please, for the love of all things - if the letter "r" is silent, keep your fingers off that letter on the keyboard - make it as invisible as it is silent!

Or maybe everyone should learn to use the phonetic alphabet? Why should your accent dictate other people's posts?

Fucking hell.

This is another ‘cash the cheque’ moment isn’t it?

FWIW sharn and shahn sound the same in my accent. And those of you saying you ‘dont get it’ - imagine not understanding that Carl and Carol often sound the same in a Scottish accent! Fancy that eh.

Now I'm thinking about invisible "r's.

Do the people who think Sharn and Shan sound the same write "draw" when they mean "drawer" on the basis that they sound the same?

And do those same people also sometimes pronounce an invisible, i.e., non-existent "r"? As in saying "drawring" when they read "drawing"?

I'm not saying that my accent should dictate what others say or write. My exasperation is tongue in cheek, tbh, but I do find it interesting. I'm starting to hear accents now as I read various posts. Just trying to work out the patterns.

The "draws" thing is a mistake that rhotic speakers do not make because we know there is an "r" in there.

ohthehillsarealive My dc have not learnt that the letters ar make any other sound than arrr (like a pirate)
They certainly don't make an ahhh sound in our accent
We're Irish and have our own version of the English language. It's not wrong, just our version

Drawers and draws sound exactly the same in my accent. @Seeingadistance surely it’s whether you’re good at spelling and have a wide vocabulary whether or not you spell it correctly?

Whether I say drawing or drawring has got nothing to do with it

@DianaPrincessofThemyscira

I've always been interested in language development and I'm starting to think there's a whole new area of study here for those who study these things!

These are just my musings on this and I'm not suggesting that there is a right way or a wrong way here.

People are now much more likely to send short written messages now than at any time in history - often using their phones and typing quickly. So they type the way they speak - meaning spoken accents now have a written form, which in a local context are instantly recognisable. Those written forms, such as draws for drawers, become a new, local, standard, and then are used on sites like MN which is used by people from all over the world, with many different accents. I had never seen "draws" for "drawers" before I started using MN, and at first I thought it was just a typo, but then noticed it more and more. It was discussed on a couple of threads, and then I discovered that it was used by people for whom "draw" and "drawer" sounded the same when spoken. Aha! That makes sense to me!

A historical example of accent influencing spelling would be names, especially surnames. In the 19th century, people moved around and between Scotland, England, Wales and Ireland for work. They also emigrated to the US, Canada, etc. When they arrived in a new place, they were asked for their names, which they gave in their own local accent. Those names were then written down by someone with a different accent - and so the spelling changed from the original spelling to a slightly different spelling, which became part of the official record. That's why people who're researching their family history often hit a blank until they tweak the spelling a little.

I have an unusual surname which originated in Scotland. In the 1800s many families with that name went to Ireland, where the spelling changed slightly, and then some of then went to the US where the spelling changed again. When you look at the American spelling and say it out loud, it's possible to "hear" an Irish accent!

Love that the clip by Fresta demonstrates that the aa sound in Sian is the same as in car...

I had never seen "draws" for "drawers" before I started using MN, and at first I thought it was just a typo, but then noticed it more and more. It was discussed on a couple of threads, and then I discovered that it was used by people for whom "draw" and "drawer" sounded the same when spoken. Aha! That makes sense to me!

I'm from a region where drawers and draws sound the same, and I've never ever seen anyone write draws when they mean drawers.

I've seen Chester Draws on a few fb pages

@LydiaLunch7

Maybe it's one of these things that when you see it once, you keep on seeing it.

I did a quick search for draws and drawers and a number of different thread came up. Here's one.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2876914-Is-the-word-draws-now-an-acceptable-way-to-describe-drawers

I can't imagine how you pronounce draws and drawers differently. I've never met anyone in my entire life who does. The only occasion when drawers might be said differently is if you were using it as the plural of people who are drawing, e.g. 'in the art the art class there was some painters and some drawers.

@LydiaLunch7

I have read the thread. If you had read the thread, you would see that I have contributed to it many times. I am merely trying to make people like @FinnegansWhiskers understand that people writing Sharn are NOT NOT NOT suggesting that you pronounce the r. MN is UK based which means that there are thousands of posters on here who will always describe a long a sound using an r because they have been taught it as a rule at school. They are not wrong. They have a different accent and all people need to do is READ THE FUCKING THREAD to understand the confusion.

I understand the confusion it causes so always describe the sound as aaa or aah so that rhotic speakers can understand but on a UK based site, this crops up again and again and all that is needed is that people read the thread.

But this AIBU. Nobody reads. Everybody clings to the belief that they are right and bashes out their responses accordingly.

”Do the people who think Sharn and Shan sound the same write "draw" when they mean "drawer" on the basis that they sound the same?”

I really don’t think there are any people on the thread who think Shan and Sharn sound the same are there? Shan rhymes with can Dan man Stan.

I'm scottish and my partner is english and we've been having a laugh about this. when southern english accents say a long A they would consider it an R. definitely SHAN or SHAAN.

drawring is another one that we've been debating for years

Wait, is FinnegansWhiskers American?

If so, no wonder there is so much confusion over the concept of a silent R.

It's a bit galling being talked down to about pronunciation by someone who almost certainly pronounces "aluminium" as though it's spelt "aloominum".

Show of Hands. You don't have to prove anything to me.

Ethel. As I've already stated I'm Welsh. My name is Sian.
I know how it's pronounced!

I can't imagine how you pronounce draws and drawers differently. I've never met anyone in my entire life who does.

Really? I'm American with a rhotic accent. I pronounce both syllables of "drawers" as well as the "r." So "draw-errs," emphasis on the first syllable. "Draws" is one syllable.

SenecaFalls

There's no such thing as a silent R in American English though, is there?

Ethel Actually, there are parts of the US where some accents are non-rhotic: coastal deep South, parts of Virginia, and parts of New England. Some of these accents are dying out, but vestiges of the silent "r" remain.

So judging by the number of posters who say they will sound an R - Scottish, Welsh, Irish, West Country.... it seems if everybody pronounced Sian as Shaan everyone will get it right.

If the English people want to add an R (wrongly) to tell Welsh people how a Welsh name should be pronounced.... go ahead...

There is no need to add an R. Shaan or Shahn is fine and correct. Take out the R and everyone will get it right, regardless of their regional accent.

Also aluminium is spelled aluminum in American English to reflect the difference in pronunciation.

If the English people want to add an R (wrongly) to tell Welsh people how a Welsh name should be pronounced.... go ahead...

It's a silent R. Stop telling English people how to pronounce a silent R. (Hint: you don't pronounce it. The key is in the word "silent".)

There have also been Welsh posters in this thread saying it's pronounced "Sharn".