To think eldest doesn't have to share with youngest

[Mumoftwo12345]

This may have been done to death but it's causing friction between me an DP.
We have two daughters (eldest from my previous marriage) 4 & 2
4yo is becoming more independent and structured in her play and her personality is that of organisation and neatness. Youngest is...well a wrecking ball tbh.

Dp believes eldest should share, everything, and vice versa but of course the youngest is always more interested in what eldest is doing/playing than the other way around.

The screaming and fighting over things has become almost unbearable and I don't think eldest should have to share everything she plays with, especially not immediately as soon as she starts to play with it. Some games are delicate and her imagination is flourishing. Youngest doesn't play the same way yet.

AIBU to tell DP to cut it out and help find alternate ways to sort the scrapping out?
Or taking turns to be utilised all the time, every time.

(I do make effort to play with both but of course can't be doing it the whole time, also our house is not large and all toys can not be housed in bedrooms away from the other sibling)

I have the same aged kids, and the 4-year-old definitely needs time to play without the 2 year old wrecking the game .. there are times when sharing & taking turns are appropriate, but when the 4 year want to do a jigsaw or something, i keep the 2 year old well away

share his stuff. leave the tops off, leave it scattered, half used, with a bite take out... tell him you are sharing.

Does he share everything he owns? I doubt it very much!

I agree with your husband. Of course she should learn to share. It's part of being in a family

We have the same situation here! No I don’t believe kids should be forced to share with their siblings all the time. Taking turns is sometimes appropriate but sharing isn’t compulsory.
My DD8 and DS4 fight over things sometimes so I make sure their bedrooms are their safe haven, when they want to play alone with their own things they go into their room and shut the door. The other has to knock or be invited in to be allowed into the other’s bedroom.
Would you want to have to share everything you own?

No she needs stuff appropriate to her age - not the two yr old all the time - he is holding her back developmentally and setting you both up for a nightmare later when she resents her sister taking over everything all the time and basically being told its tough you share - even though younger one basically waltzes off with it all. Its also teaching younger one to have respect for older ones things - so yes he needs to back down on this one

If he can't see reason, I'd start sharing all his stuff with him immediately. Like his phone, every time he tries to use it.

Not very mature but it makes the point nicely.

Children feel happier to share when they know that they own something. After they have had a chance to have ownership over their belongings, that's when they feel most likely to share.

Let your DD play with some of her toys on her own. Some of them she can share. It's perfectly normal for her to want some things to herself.

I do agree but I think it does work both ways. In a year or two you might find your eldest interested in what your youngest is doing/eating/playing with etc.. There isn’t a huge age gap so they will likely have the same interests for a few years. If one isn’t expected to share then I think the rule should apply to both children.
I don’t like it when oldests don’t have to share but youngests do. Not saying that will be you but it does happen where oldests get it both ways.

I think Laura Markham's attitude to sharing is really good. She outlines it here, a really interesting blog post. I've been using it with my 3yr old and 1 yr old... 1 yr old is too little really but the eldest responds well.

No they shouldn't share.
I'm saying that as an older sibling myself, and as a mother.
I have a 4yr old and a 1yr old, and I swear if dp comes back with just 1 balloon again, I'll be screaming louder than the children were.

I've just ntocied the blog post I linked is a version of a section in her siblings book which I can also really recommend.

Of course the 4 year old should know how to share but not all the time!

Poor thing can’t have anything to herself? That’s pretty crappy.

I was a childminder and would specifically set up times for the older ones to play uninterrupted, they need to learn to develop their play.
Time to share and time to play alone.
When she wants to do something on her own could she play in her room or at the table, so it's obvious to the younger.
But equally the younger has then got the right to not always let the older play.

Also I don’t like using the term “share” as it implies a split... you “share” crisps or sweets and you don’t get them back, so I think the terms “take turns” or “allow them to play with you” gets a more positive response from young children. You are acknowledging their ownership of their toy but encouraging kindness.

YANBU. Of course the eldest needs opportunity to have her own things which she can play with in her own way. Otherwise she'll never get to play in an age appropriate way. The two year old may not be even developmentally capable of sharing yet. Forcing the sharing is only going to breed resentment between the two of them. Giving the four year old her own space is going to make her more likely to want to help her sister and play with her at other times.

Thanks for the tips all good advice and along the lines of what I've been thinking. In the heat of the moment it does get very frantic and you do anything to make the noise stop!
It can get very difficult when 4yo wants me to play but not allow 2yo and no one wants to play with dad funnily enough!
I did state this morning that we need to make bedrooms for lone play.

My dgs5 likes to play with his Lego, or paw patrol, or superhero figures. Dgd2 gets annoyed and runs off with the pieces.

Well, there’s ‘sharing’ and there’s ‘letting a 2 yr old constantly disrupt her sister’s play’. Your 4 year old is entitled to complete a puzzle, or put her teddies to bed without her sister grabbing the puzzle pieces so she can’t finish, or taking her teddies off somewhere else. If she’s not allowed to do this you’re setting up a heck of a lot of resentment, frustration and anger between them. To make the point it’s not about ‘sharing’, it’s about mutual respect. You and your DH ‘share’ the TV, but if you grabbed the remote and turned over, that’s not ‘sharing’. If he’s reading a book, and you grab it from him because you want to read it, that’s not ‘sharing’. It’s bad manners, - and infuriating.

Of course she should learn to share. It's part of being in a family

Share EVERYTHING, though? So it's okay for a two year old to barge in and break bits of, for example, a jigsaw that is aimed at slightly older children, ruining it for their sibling just because they are family and must share everything?

My dcs are the same ages as yours and they share everything (except for 1 special teddy they each have). Although I tend to say 'take turns' rather than share and I never force it. It helps in our house that they both want to play with each other's toys and so they tend to play with something for a bit then swap.

I think encouraging sharing but not forcing it is the best way.

YANBU - I have pictures of DS1 sat in the portable crib just to keep away from DS2 sometimes. We'd occasionally build barriers so that he could play without his brother (similarly, DS1 has to have structure, but DS2 is a little barbarian). I always told DS1 that it's nice to share, but it's not required, you are allowed your own things too, and made sure that they both also had time apart.

They're a bit older now, and they generally play well together, they generally share (recently we were in a restaurant, and DS2 spotted some sweets in a jar and asked DP if they could have some. DP put 2 each in front of each of them, but without even pausing to think about it, DS2 picked up his two, and gave one to his brother), but I keep that rule - you're allowed your own stuff, you're allowed to enforce boundaries, but it's kind to share sometimes, and tactically, if you share more, the other person will share more (and vice versa, if the other doesn't share, then you don't need to feel bad about not sharing yourself) - and it seems to be working.

Same age kids. I make them share unless it's in her room, or at kitchen table for stuff she doesn't want touched. They fight a lot. I have taken things away if they both end up screaming. The message is getting through and things are improving

Thank you. DP takes issue that 4yo takes things off 2yo as they are her toys (that she opened for her birthday) even if she isn't playing with them at the time.
In this instance do we agree that they are 4yo's belongings? She will not keep all her own toys in her room, they are in the living room which is a shared space. Seems to pick and choose when it's ok for her sister to play with her and then changes her mind. It's a minefield to know what rules to be enforced in order to keep the peace. We ask them to play nicely, but the argument is that the toys are 'hers'

Of course she should learn to share. It's part of being in a family

As part of a family you still have your own space and your own belongings. We share the kitchenware but my husband doesn't come over and grab my cup out of my hands because he's decided he likes it better than the cup he's using. Some things are also completely mine. My husband can't decide to take my phone to work because he likes it better than his. I arrange my wardrobe, bedside table and sink in the way I want it and no one can come along and mess it up. If I'm busy using the kitchen table to ice a cake no one will come along, sweep all my ingredients onto the floor and start a jigsaw puzzle on the table because it's "shared".

As adults we negotiate all these things automatically without discussion for the most part. Small children need adult help because they don't automatically know the etiquette or have the self control or the empathy to negotiate all of this.