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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Pre nup? Feeling a bit put out . . .

64 replies

nonnatushouse · 16/09/2018 08:51

Recently engaged and OH has just sprung it on me that he’d like a pre nup in place once we’re married.

He has a DD from a previous relationship and we have a DD together.

He has his own business and owns land and a quarter of four houses (it’s as ridiculous as it sounds)

In a way I can see why he wants to do it but I’m another sense I feel as though he doesn’t trust me and if that’s the case then I’d rather we didn’t get married and stayed as we are.

AIBU?

OP posts:
Losingthewill1 · 16/09/2018 10:21

I wouldn’t sign it, tell him to stay as you are and get something in place for your daughter. Cheeky git

ShadyLady53 · 16/09/2018 10:24

Thinkfast - There’s no point in me seeing a matrimonial lawyer yet, I’m not even dating. The accountant found out this information for me from a Lawyer who was dealing with my will. If I were to marry of course I’d seek advice from a specialist lawyer. The D’oh! was quite rude tbh.

TeenTimesTwo · 16/09/2018 10:24

I would expect a 'fair' pre-nup to include a gradual transition over to 50-50 division as the length of the marriage continues and especially if one partner becomes a SAHP or a carer.

So not just a point of what's mine is mine, yours is yours, but

  • separate after 1 year, leave with what we came with
  • separate after 5 years, some sharing
  • separate after 10+ years, 3 children and SAHP, 50-50
CurlyWurlyTwirly · 16/09/2018 10:25

OP, I don’t know enough about pre-nups, but I would still get married.
Marriage is still a legal framework which protects you, your Dd and any further children.
Your ex has been through divorce. It is crap. ( ironically I have never been married but custody and splitting of assets with my ex has been horrendous and as bad as divorce).
You do need to talk to your fiancé about why he feels a prenup is necessary.

boux · 16/09/2018 10:35

I would be very insulted. You have a child together and you have taken him on with a child from a previous relationship. He should majorly respect you for this because it is not an easy thing to do.

However getting married will still provide you with more protection than not getting married. Pre-nups & post nups are not legally binding in the UK but can be taken into consideration upon divorce if the judge deems it appropriate.
The question is though, do you want to be in a relationship let alone married to someone who treats you with suspicion? You are not his ex, perhaps he needs to be reminded of this.
Also if you refuse to sign the pre nup does he still want to marry you? If not I would end the relationship to be honest.

C0untDucku1a · 16/09/2018 10:40

What are the details of the prenup?

LanaorAna2 · 16/09/2018 10:41

Well, ok, if that's what he wants you'll think about it. What sort of lawyer has he arranged for you to see to protect your rights? His job, not yours.

PaulDacreRimsGeese · 16/09/2018 10:45

I don't think it's a bad thing, though arguably should've been raised earlier. It's not binding in the UK anyway, and the court might pay anything from no attention to lots of attention to it if you split, depending on circumstances. Obviously get legal advice, and tailor your decision making in the marriage to the assumption that the prenup will hold. Eg if it's going to be a strict 50/50, don't go PT or give up work etc.

MsSquiz · 16/09/2018 10:46

DH and I have one. He has family money to "protect" and I completely understood why he suggested one. Within ours are provisions for maintenance for any child we would have and the amount of money I would be entitled to should we divorce increases over the years.
It also gives him no claim to any money I have in my own name/accounts (significantly less than the money he has)
Our pre nup would be updated following the birth of any children.

While I appreciate people saying "they aren't worth the paper they're written on" a judge would take them into consideration, as well as when they were signed/any other circumstances, they would make divorce proceedings simpler if they are stuck to by both parties

blueskiesandforests · 16/09/2018 10:51

Is there provision in the prenup for compensating whichever one of you might lose current and future earning potential due to maternity or paternity leave or one career taking a back seat due to childcare responsibility?

BoneyBackJefferson · 16/09/2018 10:54

LanaorAna2

What sort of lawyer has he arranged for you to see to protect your rights? His job, not yours.

This is wrong on so many levels, It isn't his job to find her a lawyer and could lead to issues further down the road.

But yes she should be protecting her rights in this.

someonekillbabyshark · 16/09/2018 10:59

A judge can over turn a will these days once your dead and change it so a prenup really means F all!! A judge would rule who gets what a what child gets what etc.... so I wouldn't worry about it

JungWan · 16/09/2018 11:00

gawd. how shit. Maybe say ''yes that's a great idea'' and then say that you want it written in to the pre-nup that your contribution to the household must be valued and so on.

Basically, if you're not independent, ie, if the fruits of your labour aren't clearly directed towards YOUR nest, your savings, YOUR pension then you need a pre-nup to protect you. Something to clarify that while you were in a joint nest with him you weren't able to put the full weight of your life, efforts, capacity behind a home/pension for yourself.
men want it both ways in these circumstances. ie, you're not having my nest or my pot but you are looking after my nest and allowing me to fill up my pot so you're not really free to do this for yourself either.

You need that in legal terms put in to a pre-nup

roadrunner11 · 16/09/2018 11:01

So does he own the family home outright? Did you move into his home?

BlueJava · 16/09/2018 11:05

It could be the other 3/4 of the owners of the 4 houses are insisting to protect themselves. I assume it's a business arrangement between them so if you then divorced your OH and went for his assets they may have to sell 1 or more properties to pay his divorce settlement and they don't want that.

I don't have a prenup because not married to OH and everything we have we built together (20+ years) but I can see why someone may want one.

user1492863869 · 16/09/2018 11:07

OP, I am more or less in your partner’s position. However so is my partner and we therefore accept that our substantive assets won’t be mixed for the foreseeable future. Wills and agreements can and should all be changed over time to reflect new circumstances and relationships.

Tbh, In his shoes I would be reluctant to risk a prenup when it comes my kid or business partners. But he will need to get expert advice on the matter. Frankly with or without a prenup you will have major complications to sort out if he dies or you divorce. People will sue or contest ownership, entitlements and intent. He’s probably trying to mitigate these and giving you some protection from challenge. I think you should want this too as it will make it easier for you in the long run.

It’s not a matter of trusting you, it’s about his obligations to other people and the position they will be put in as a result of him entering into a lawful arrangement with you. The marriage trumps everything else. You have nothing to lose here but they do.

No his isn’t Romeo but then again Romeo was fickle and foolish.

Collaborate · 16/09/2018 11:10

I am a family lawyer. If done properly they should be as good as binding. His suggestion given the circumstances sounds reasonable to me.

Orchiddingme · 16/09/2018 11:14

I wouldn't be happy about this as you have a dd together, which is about as shared as you can get, and I wouldn't want someone looking to protect themselves whilst shielding money from their dd's mother and the dd.

I also wouldn't want him to shield his business or even the 4th of the houses indefinitely. If you are in a marriage, and money goes into that business or that 4th of the houses through maintaining them, then it stands that they are marital assets, or at least I wouldn't be happy ploughing money into assets the other person was constantly trying to protect.

If he's happy to share, then there's no need for a prenup, if he's not then I wouldn't want to bother in this scenario. I think it's a little different when you are childfree and one person has very substantial assets but that's not the case here. Even then, I would want them to share their assets with the family as I have done in my own marriage.

powerwalk · 16/09/2018 11:20

I would be concerned about you signing a pre nup expecting it not to hold up in court, because the tide is turning and increasingly there is an increasing sea change of feeling that pre nups should be considered and respected.

I would absolutely get a lawyer, a very good one to tell you where you stand financially and legally.

From a purely personal view, I would be quite upset that this was not discussed before you became engaged, and eve before dd arrived. Very poor form to just spring this on you from nowhere. I would immediately feel concerned I was making a mistake marrying him. I understand he may wish to protect his dd assets, but there is still that feeling that he does not think your marriage will last.

drquin · 16/09/2018 11:45

I think it's a very sensible conversation to be having & documenting (irrespective of how legally-binding they are now, or may be in the future).

To me it's not saying - well I don't expect our marriage to last long - because honestly, how many of the divorced people do you know who genuinely went into marriage just for a couple of years. As much as we each go in to marriage hoping, planning, praying, expecting it to be forever ...... we all know enough folk for whom that hasn't been the case.

Had you both been 18, or together since, with roughly equally & relatively insignificant assets & liabilities which had grown in the time together, it may not be so useful.

But you're going in to marriage with one child already together, one child from his previous relationship, potential for more children, a reasonably substantial business arrangement which involves investment (and probably debts) with at least one other individual or company. Wouldn't you want to stick down on paper how that all looks ....... particularly if you are going to assume a SAH role, as other say how are your years of reduced earning / pension contributions going to be allowed for?

81Byerley · 16/09/2018 12:24

When my ex-husband had an affair with a married woman, the mess resulting from that included her insisting on half the value of her husband's family business, which was started by his parents when they were newly married. By the time of the divorce, the old couple were in their late eighties, and still involved in the running of the business, helping out where they could. She had no involvement in it, other than taking money from the income, as she had a full time job. I felt in those circumstances, it was a shame that there wasn't a pre-nup to protect the rights of her ex and his parents.

Logistria · 16/09/2018 12:32

If his concern was about protecting his child from his previous marriage, surely it would be more sensible to set up a trust of some kind. Seeing as how that would actually be legally binding.

Combined with writing a better will than "everything to my spouse". Probably also making use of a trust, eg interest in possession trust.

A tax adviser would be able to assist - one with the STEP qualification would be ideal. There are various different options to structure it in a way that achieves what he wants to, and that is right for everyone involved.

But if it's just that he doesn't want you to ever end up owning any part of any of his assets, then what is the point of marrying him? That's what marriage does!

Original poster
nonnatushouse · 16/09/2018 13:01

Another thing I wan to factor in is that I actually do a fair amount where his business is concerned. Paperwork and physical work too, especially at certain times of the year.

DSD is with us every weekend and 80% of school holidays and I look after her 90% of the time. I don’t know what the particulars of the pre nup will be exactly as he’s only recently mentioned it but I would like to think that all of the above would be taken into consideration!

OP posts:
Original poster
nonnatushouse · 16/09/2018 13:02

@Logistria exactly what I thought! A decent will is surely more binding than a pre nup and offers more protection for DSD.

OP posts:
Original poster
nonnatushouse · 16/09/2018 13:04

I be also made a will and DSD aid oneof the beneficiaries!

OP posts: