"Step grandad" pushes the boundaries with my two girls

[spoon1996]

I have two girls (a 2 year old and 3 month old) and he is extremely pushy on them for them to hug and kiss him. He's my partners step father who only came into his life when he was 12 (he's now 21). He always makes an excuse to take a photo of them on his phone and pressures my 2 year old to sit on his knee, give him hugs, play with him etc. My two year old is potty training and She's only able when she's naked right now and for them coming over I put clothes on her. They'd been in the house for 15 minutes and I went upstairs to get something and I heard him saying she must need a pee she has to go for a pee, get her on the potty. My partners mother doesn't act like this she barely pays attention to my girls. Her and my partner also allow this and encourage it always telling my two year to do these things and giving him first hold of my 3 month old. This all disgusts me and I would never ever let him be alone with them or have them over night etc. Am I being horrible or am I acting right? I also don't like him either, he's a bully and pressures my partner into things. He also never acted the "father role" for my partner and never bought him a bed when he was a child he had the couch or a mattress.

Yes, you can ask for information on whether he is on the sex register under Sarah’s law.

OP, the step grandfather is behaving completely inappropriately with your children and you need to keep him away from them.The sort of behaviour you describe doesn’t come on suddenly in old age, research his personal history and if you find what you are looking for, confront him.

My dd (4.5) has never liked kisses, even from me. We've made sure not to push this and she knows she has to say goodbye and wave from the door but physical contact is on her terms.

I think you have to be worried about the dynamics of the family where you say your partner and his mother are firmly under the thumb of this horrible man.

Have you brought this up with your partner OP?

You are not paranoid.

When you are ready to discuss it with your partner, perhaps do it in a “that was odd, what do you think?” Rather than fait accompli.

It sounds like your partner has had years of conditioning from this man. Realistically, if you are to have any chance of success in helping him to see how controlling and inappropriate it is you need to do so by gentle questioning to get him to think it through himself and provide an opportunity for him to raise any doubts of his own.

If you tell him your (and our) views that it's bullying, controlling, inappropriate, grooming, etc, he is highly unlikely to listen. He will just go straight into defensive mode and not absorb or entertain anything you're saying. Whereas if you raise it through questioning it will get past those automatic barriers and sow seeds that will enable him to undo the brainwashing he experienced as a child.

Because grooming is conditioning, it is brainwashing. Bullying, controlling (abusive) men get their partners or children to accept their behaviour (and therefore not tell anyone) by conditioning them to believe it's normal, to believe it's acceptable, to believe if it makes them unhappy or uncomfortable it's just because they're oversensitive, to believe it's what's happening in every other home in the country.

You can't begin to undo that just by rocking up and announcing "hey, this is wrong!". It would be like somebody telling you the sky is actually yellow and always has been - you'd tell them not to be so ridiculous.

I agree with PP, he'll probably push back with accusing you of suspecting his motives/threatening to withdraw affection/support if he doesn't get his way. But keep calm and 'why is it so important to you to force DC to give you a cuddle when they don't want to?' 'im not saying you're a danger, but I want her to not grow up thinking if someone bigger tells her to do something she has to do it. Sometimes she doesn't want to hug me either, and I'm so proud that she can say that' 'well if you're going to kick up a fuss over something so minor, I guess we're going to have to keep visits shorter. ' keep reminding yourself that her drawing boundaries is a good thing, don't let them babysit, check with (Claire's? ) Law, act like he's the weird one whenever he mentions it (you seem obsessed with babysitting/ making her touch you. Why? She's 2, she's got plenty of time to see you as part of her life). If after 3 visits he keeps mentioning it. 'look, you keep on trying to force her to something she doesn't want to do. I think we're going to take a break from visits and switch to calls for a while as this makes me and her uncomfortable that you're not listening to boundaries that are normal. We've tried telling you, but you seem determined to ignore us.'.

If he was a nice, decent man he would have bought your DP a bed when he was a child. This tells you everything you need to know about him and DP’s mother.

@Heatherbaby

It's nothing to do with him not having legal rights. It's her partner. When he has the kids, he will take them to visit and she cannot stop that. He could say "ok, I wont" and then do it anyway

She won't get a court order because she has a bad feeling about someone. So how exactly do you think she can stop It?

Instinct is what has kept our speices alive for millennia. In modern times we often ignore it. Don’t. Your antenna is up, and up for a reason.

Your DP had a mattress. No bed. Speaks volumes.

Contact NSPCC. You don’t need to appease anyone. These are your children. Go with your gut feeling. I wish someone had done as much for me.

@spacezombies I did suggest a family solicitor would be of better help but it's also my profession, family law isnt my area of expertise at all. However, I have seen Court orders made for visitation to occur in strict conditions. A good solicitor should be able to advise the steps to obtain this or whether it is possible on just a feeling as you say. However as the step grandad is not even family, i don't imagine it would be difficult to factor it in. Again, only by my rudimentary knowledge. Law is my game by family isn't my field - so i would always suggest seeing a qualified person to at least get a definitive answer rather than the alternative of being scared in to staying in a potentially rubbish relationship until the girls are old enough!!

I'd be keeping my kids the hell away from him... Trying to get a 2yr to pee, so she gets naked in front of him...NOT good.

men perving on his daughter's home (by letting himself in while she isn't there, and snooping on her stuff!) There is absolutely NO suggestion that he is "perving" or going through her stuff. Stop adding things that aren't there...

It's nothing to do with him not having legal rights. It's her partner. When he has the kids, he will take them to visit and she cannot stop that. He could say "ok, I wont" and then do it anyway

Surely if she speaks to kids dad about her suspicions and the reasons for it, he would stop con tact with the kids too? At the very least surely he would not ever leave this perv unsupervised with the kids.

@Bolloxio

She already said that if she stops that man seeing them or raises her suspicions then she will "probably lose her partner over it". And she's sure he will continue to take the kids round there without her.

So she can speak to him obviously, but she can't control his reaction.

I see, sorry I have read the whole thread but somehow must have missed that. Its an awful situation to be in for sure. I would maybe, if I thought that would be the reaction, just float my suspicions without directly saying hes not seeing the kids. And see what partners reaction is to that, if hes scared of him (as the OP seems) then it may be a very strong 'no way would he do anything bad!' type reaction, or it might turn out he has the same uneasy feeling over it. Surely regardless of what he feels about this man, when his daughters are involved everything goes out of the window. If not, then hes a shit father. I know that seems harsh, but he is.

Trying to imagine men close to me doing this..and even with the likes of my brother and father..I would cut contact instantly if i suspected anything dodgy.

butterflysugarbaby
men perving on his daughter's home (by letting himself in while she isn't there, and snooping on her stuff!)

@differentnameforthis
There is absolutely NO suggestion that he is "perving" or going through her stuff. Stop adding things that aren't there...

I was on about another man on another thread! Nice little convenient, cherry-picking edit of my post there though, trying to make it look like I said something I didn't!

THIS was my complete post - from page 1. (From last night!)

Urgh there are some fucking creepy ass men on here tonight!

Men sending dick pics to their wife's friend, men perving on his daughter's home (by letting himself in while she isn't there, and snooping on her stuff!) And now THIS - a grubby old man being overly tactile with his step-grand daughters.

WHAT the fuck? Is there something in the water?!

Now bore off with your dodgy editing, and cherry picking - and trying to make my post look like I said something different, you shit-stirrer!

butterflysugarbaby Why is your default to be rude?, there's no need, a simple message to say that I had the wrong thread, and a link to the other thread would have sufficed. Except you get defense and over react!

Nothing to do with shit stirring at all, but you carry on overreacting, you are obviously trying to pick a fight!

*defensive

YANBU. Trust your gut and keep them at arms length.

Unfortunately I dealt with a lot of men like this when I was a child. You need to isolate your children from him. I recall from an early age being able to recognise this sort of behaviour from adults although I was too young to act upon it and that's particularly worrying.Don't allow your children to ever reach this stage.

If you feel uncomfortable by the way this man behaves around your two daughters then I think you should listen to your instincts. Even if his intent is not malicious, his behaviour causes you to feel worried and that’s not OK. You are doing the right thing in not allowing your daughters to stay over at their house, and I would encourage you to ensure that he is never left unsupervised with your daughters unless there is another adult present. If his intent is malicious, then at least he cannot harm your daughters while other people are around.
If you feel comfortable doing so, you could address the issue with him (perhaps having spoken with your partner about it first). If you do it in a calm, non-confrontational manner then it is less likely to cause anger, upset or defensiveness. You could approach the conversation saying that you want to teach your daughters about consent and how to respect their bodies, including that they have the right to say no if they do not want to be kissed, hugged or tickled. Let him (and their grandma) know that sometimes they behave in ways which could give your daughters mixed messages, and you don’t want to confuse them.
There are some children’s books that you could read with your daughters (particularly the eldest one at this stage), including ‘An Exeptional Children’s Guide to Touch’ by Hunter Manasco’ and ‘Some Secrets Should Never Be Kept’ by Jayneed Sanders. These will help you to educate your daughters about good touch, bad touch and what to do if they found themselves in a difficult situation. Knowing what to look out for may validate your concerns, but it may also reassure you and help you to feel more confident.

I am literally speaking from firsthand experience...I felt uneasy about my fil and after our first came along my hubs completely cut his parents out of our lives.We got some extremely disturbing news recently...Guess where and why my fil is!!!Trust your instinct!!!