Boss saying I need to work a level above (but not have a payrise)

[PoesyCherish]

Had a chat with my boss yesterday afternoon. He told me today he needs me to be working way above the level I'm at now. He said he took me on at junior level but because of how busy things are he needs me working at a senior level and then hopefully in 18-24 months they'll be able to promote.

AIBU to think you don't employ someone at a pay grade way below what you need them working at? It'd be the equivalent of taking somebody on in the NHS at grade 2 but saying actually no we need you to work at grade 5/6. I'm in the private sector but have extensively looked into the equivalent NHS roles and this is exactly what he's asking. AIBU to think this isn't on or is he?

I'm also worried that as far as he's concerned, I'm still on probation so I'm worried he's thinking if i don't work at the senior level he would try and fail my probation. What he doesn't realise is HR messed up the probation period on my contract so I've actually finished it several months early.

If they need you to step up they can pay you for it. Have you had the request in writing? If not, reply to the request by email stating that you need another meeting or formal letter to cover the exact terms and conditions of the change in your employment terms including a suitable salary rise. Copy in HR.

Why on earth would you do a more senior role for 2 years without being paid for it?

I work in a large professional services firm and it only promote when people have more or less reached the competencies of the new level, which often means working above pay grade for 6 months to 18 months. I see why the business does it - we are all client facing and there is no room for error at more senior levels. In the past i’ve been screwed by the policy - two years to get into executive rungs when most do it in six months - and done really well out of it, pushing more senior people aside and taking their roles and fast promotions too. But some days it can just feel crappy, especially when it’s a long wait

If you decide to pursue this, then i’d suggest getting promotion timing / case for promotion locked down now, and agree ‘no surprises’.

I read your post as him saying he needs you working at the senior level because he has realised he needs a senior level person. I have been in those position and I’ve meant that I’m going to have to make you redundant and take on someone more experienced unless you can step up.

It’s true what others say about needing to perform at promotional level before you actually get it, but if you don’t want it (which is totally fair enough) it sounds like you’ve had an unlucky job move and it’s not working out. I’d start looking for something else

“ I have been in those position and I’ve meant that I’m going to have to make you redundant and take on someone more experienced unless you can step up.”

If that’s the case here then if Op left it woukd simply cost the company more to recruit outside at the senior level. They should be doing what they can to make OP stay eg putting the terms in writing, length of acting up, agreed salary upon promotion etc. 6 months of acting up for no extra pay for OP equals 6 months of salary at a senior role saved for the company . You’d think they would be falling over themselves to keep her if she has the skills to do the senior role now for nothing.

But if she doesn’t want to do it what’s the point in all that? It’s not a big deal (for me) to re recruit exactly what I need, but it is hassle, so maybe they’re just scoping out whether she’s interested in trying.

OP being asked to work above your pay grade is not the equivalent of working as a band5/6 when you're a band 2 in the NHS. There are enormous differences in the roles at those bands, they are entirely different jobs requiring entirely different qualifications.

Yes, exactly that is my point. I don't have the qualifications or the experience he's expecting me to work at. I have looked up the equivalent in the NHS and it is like expecting a grade 2 to work at a 5/6 (or whatever specific grades I used, I can't remember).

and assuming you’re up to the extra responsibility (not being snarky, just realistic, you don’t want to fuck up)

I am definitely not up to the extra responsibility. It's not even a field I have worked in before so I have had less than 6 months experience in that particular industry!

Poesy, what kind of organisation is it? A certain sports-related zero hours type of place comes to mind.....

Haha I know where you mean and it's definitely not there. I did used to work there as a student though.

The other thing is, if you’re doing more senior tasks, who will be doing the junior tasks you’re currently doing?

He wants me to be doing it too.

Do you not have a contract of employment? Is there job description attached?

Yes I have a contract but there is no job description. It just says to carry out "job title" based tasks.

You’d think they would be falling over themselves to keep her if she has the skills to do the senior role now for nothing.

I don't think I do have the skills though considering I've been in the role (and industry as a whole) for less than 6 months.

The role was sold to me as "we need someone to come in at entry level, we will provide training with extensive training plans and then in a few years get you doing more things and given you more responsibility"

I wouldn't have moved had he told me he need someone to come in and jump in at the deep end. His exact words a few days ago were "you'll be thrown in at the deep end and will have to do it all yourself and we don't have time to train you" which completely goes against what he said at my interview.

It's fine if they want somebody to come in and jump in at the deep end but then they should have been honest and they would have been able to employ an appropriate person

I would accept & act up for six months while searching feverishly for another job.

OP you really need to tell us what type of organisation this is. Don’t tell us the name but a bit more detail would be good. It sounds like a totally amateur outfit to me. No job description!

I’d be suspicious that he is throw You in at the deep end knowing you’ll probably fuck up and then have grounds to fire you as not being up to the job agreed.

All sounds fishy, amateur or both....

I’d do it, put it on your Linkedin page and if he doesn’t promote you within 12 months, you should take your senior experience elsewhere.
Nice to be thought capable though.

Probationary periods are meaningless and usually only mean you get enhanced benefits upon passing so unfortunately it means very little that you have technically passed it.

It is normal ime to work to a higher level for some time and then get the recognition but 18-24 months is pretty long, I'd say it's more normal to be 'acting up' for a year maximum. Iiwm I'd have another discussion and try and get him to agree to a review in 6 months with a view of increasing salary accordingly if your work is acceptable and then follow it up with a "thanks for the chat, just confirming our discussion ......." email.

Oh FFS I missed loads of posts out sorry op I didn't see that you don't feel up to it. they can terminate your employment with very minimal risk up to 103 weeks service, do you think you're selling yourself short and they can see potential? (even though the way he's going about it is rubbish)

PoesyCherish

It sounds like you don't see a long term future at the company. So I'd play the game and keep him sweet by making the right sounds just so he doesn't pick up that you're not invested in his plans for you. Meanwhile, pull out the stops to move elsewhere.

Presumably there are no promising openings elsewhere in the company?

If you had wanted to stay I would have suggested you nail his feet to the floor by insisting he is specific about a transition plan to move you into the more senior role, which would include documenting the competencies he needs that are not in your current role spec and timescales for you to gain on the job experience plus a training program. And of course a progression plan for salary adjustments over time.

I bet if you said this to him he'd run a mile! Or bluster and give you a bunch of platitudes. These people are slimy cheapskates, they just want something for nothing.

I would ask for the plan in writing, so you know what you are signing up for.

I have never worked anywhere structured enough to have 'levels', work just expands to fill the time available.

The thing is, if you get things a little wrong because you are working 'above' your experience it needs to be the companies fault, not yours, if you see what I mean.

You also ought to have a way 'back down' if it really doesn't suit - with no hard feelings either way.

My gut reaction reply to this was 'well he can fuck right off'.

The thing is, if you get things a little wrong because you are working 'above' your experience it needs to be the companies fault, not yours

In theory it should be the companies fault but I can see they firmly pin the blame on the people on the ground. For example, you are forced to sign a document (colleague tried refusing before on the grounds of not being trained or experienced enough and he said she had to and applied huge amounts of pressure too) and then if you've signed it, it's on you if it goes wrong.

The thing is, if you get things a little wrong because you are working 'above' your experience it needs to be the companies fault, not yours

That's not how it works, in reality. Underlying an employee's contract of employment is the commitment to carry out work. The employers' side of the bargain is that they commit to give the employee work. The employer holds the power insofar as contracts invariably contain that magic phrase about "undertaking other duties as required during the course of executing the role"

To some, the magic phrase is a golden opportunity to broaden their remit and experience to become more valuable to the company.

In this case, it's clear the boss has no intention of supporting their employee to progress up their career ladder, they just want work done on the cheap. Bet you any money they'd be quick to blame the employee if they put a foot wrong and would rewrite history by turning against them and saying the employee is not up to the job when it suits them.

Incompetent managers like are delusional, they cost the company a lot of money by losing talent when people exercise their choice to vote with their feet!

From
The role was sold to me as "we need someone to come in at entry level, we will provide training with extensive training plans and then in a few years get you doing more things and given you more responsibility"

To
His exact words a few days ago were "you'll be thrown in at the deep end and will have to do it all yourself and we don't have time to train you" which completely goes against what he said at my interview.

in only a few months, what is he on? Clearly not someone you can trust.

in only a few months, what is he on? Clearly not someone you can trust.

I've no idea @daisychain01 and I really don't feel I can trust him given how much he's changed in a few months. Or maybe he just didn't want to admit in interview that he doesn't actually have training plans for his team, or maybe he just doesn't like me and wants me to fail

I would ask for the plan in writing, so you know what you are signing up for

Yes I have a contract but there is no job description. It just says to carry out "job title" based tasks

undertaking other duties as required during the course of executing the role

you can be basically hired and fired at whim under 2 years of employment

The plan in writing and indeed a contract itself is redundant if they can ask you to do any other "duties as required" or sack you within two years without repercussion. You’re basically a slave under that IR framework.

colleague tried refusing before on the grounds of not being trained or experienced enough and he said she had to and applied huge amounts of pressure too

The communist party waves fewer red flags than your company. I recommend looking for another job promptly.