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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Boss saying I need to work a level above (but not have a payrise)

73 replies

PoesyCherish · 14/09/2018 17:55

Had a chat with my boss yesterday afternoon. He told me today he needs me to be working way above the level I'm at now. He said he took me on at junior level but because of how busy things are he needs me working at a senior level and then hopefully in 18-24 months they'll be able to promote.

AIBU to think you don't employ someone at a pay grade way below what you need them working at? It'd be the equivalent of taking somebody on in the NHS at grade 2 but saying actually no we need you to work at grade 5/6. I'm in the private sector but have extensively looked into the equivalent NHS roles and this is exactly what he's asking. AIBU to think this isn't on or is he?

I'm also worried that as far as he's concerned, I'm still on probation so I'm worried he's thinking if i don't work at the senior level he would try and fail my probation. What he doesn't realise is HR messed up the probation period on my contract so I've actually finished it several months early.

OP posts:
Original poster
PoesyCherish · 14/09/2018 23:02

Depends how keen you are to be kept on after your probationary period.

But I've already said I've passed my probationary period. He just thinks I'm in my probationary period. The standard probationary period for his group is 6 months (I'm at almost 6 months but not quite) and HR put 3 months so I've already gone well past it.

OP posts:
Original poster
PoesyCherish · 14/09/2018 23:05

How many are there that are on a higher salary? Could it be a case of sex discrimination if you are the only member of staff on the lower pay band?

Everyone in the group is on a higher salary so that's around 10-12 permanent staff and 3 or 4 temporary. The vast majority of those are female. Sorry I've had too much rum to work out exact numbers.

OP posts:
genivert · 14/09/2018 23:16

The only experience I have of this is at a FTSE 100 employer where this dangling carrot would mean nothing.

They only asked "weak" staff (yes, I managed some of them) - women returning from ML who had enhanced pay clawbacks or were the primary breadwinners, or they used it as a bonus when they wanted some extra value for agreeing to flex time.

In one case it meant nothing anyway as her team lead (the one who arranged it) left after a year themselves anyway - since there was nothing objective in terms of specific goals to be met, with timelines, and obligations, that had been arranged formally, it wasn't worth anything after 18months of stepping up into her "stretch role" aka cheap Supervisor resources whilst only paying minimum wage.

Don't do it, op, would be my advice. You'll end up resentful and will perpetuate poor labor practices UNLESS this is clearly KPI'd, timelined, and set out as a written offer. Even then since it's not a professional role or an industry you want to progress in, you'd be foolish in my experience.

genivert · 15/09/2018 10:40

Also to add.. at my employer (the large company I described above) I was once approached to cover for someone a good two levels above me "as a growth opportunity" after a man resigned. Think as me as a £29k/yr widget maker continually given bigger responsibility being asked to perform at director level when the job grade was around £70-90k base from what I know if market rates.

There was huge pressure, flattery, but no actual concrete assurances that it would count for anything in the long run until they managed to hire a permanent replacement... I knew what would happen and didn't even enjoy the parts of the job that would be most of the step up role! I'd spend all week stressed and unhappy and uncompensated and I refused with a polite, diplomatic professional reason (don't feel I'm ready, would prefer to finish upskilling in the areas according to my training plan)....

Well, the fallout was horrific and I was treated like an outcast for the rest of the time I was there - considered not a team player etc.

In the end I left 8 months later, in which time they promoted (with a contract!) One of my peers into the temp role. Male, less experienced, less tenured, but a real pal to the directors in charge of site resource planning.

I don't regret saying no but there was fallout from it.

NonaGrey · 15/09/2018 10:44

I’ve always worked in the private and this is quite standard. You step up to get experience to get through the interview and get promoted.

You can also use the experience to get a senior job somewhere else.

QueenCarrot · 15/09/2018 10:46

I'm in the private sector and spouting 'that's not my pay grade' is not acceptable.

Well it should be. It is a disgrace that any employer should think it OK to pay less than what the job is worth. Fine for a short while, or in an emergency to help out but long term it’s just taking the piss

Hopoindown31 · 15/09/2018 10:46

Take it as a short term opportunity to get some extra skills whilst looking for jobs elsewhere. Your boss is telling you loud and clear that their management style is to try and take advantage of you as much as possible because they are too weak to tell those above them that they need more resources to do the job expected of them. My experience of the 'pay rise later' promise is that it is a never never and you'll just get stuck doing more work for no extra pay.

Butterymuffin · 15/09/2018 10:47

For 3-6 months to prove myself. For 2 years? Not a chance in hell.

This!

User467 · 15/09/2018 10:47

OP being asked to work above your pay grade is not the equivalent of working as a band5/6 when you're a band 2 in the NHS. There are enormous differences in the roles at those bands, they are entirely different jobs requiring entirely different qualifications. It's like saying I'm a cleaner and have been asked to be a senior physiotherapist

Lucked · 15/09/2018 10:48

Do not except 18-24 months, he is counting on you not negotiating this, you have to play the game. I would counter with six months and if that is declined say no.

CurlyhairedAssassin · 15/09/2018 10:49

Is anyone else thinking this is a wierd thing to ask OP if he thinks she’s still in her probationary period. If OP has only been there 6 months she will not exactly be massively experienced in the actual role they took her on for, never mind something a grade higher!

It’s odd. I can understand it if you’d been working in that role for 2 years, had proved yourself and were actually looking to move up. In those circumstances If it were me I would accept but negotiate the timescale down and also get him to put it in writing.

But you’re a newbie. it’s wierd. Have you asked others who have been there longer had they thought about moving up and see what they say?

mostdays · 15/09/2018 10:50

I'd act up for 3 months tops. If at that point they're not willing to pay me for the job I am doing, I'd start applying for jobs elsewhere. I can't abide employers who think that they should be able to do stuff like this and wouldn't want to work for them.

Longtalljosie · 15/09/2018 10:52

It’s unfair - but leaving that aside - and assuming you’re up to the extra responsibility (not being snarky, just realistic, you don’t want to fuck up) then take it as CV fodder and continue to look for the job you actually want...

mostdays · 15/09/2018 10:53

I'm in the private sector and spouting 'that's not my pay grade' is not acceptable
But spouting "you have to do work we are not willing to pay you for" is? Pathetic.

CurlyhairedAssassin · 15/09/2018 10:55

Poesy, what kind of organisation is it? A certain sports-related zero hours type of place comes to mind.....

What kind of manager says “I took you on at junior level but now (a few months later) I need more people at a senior level”?? Well, hire them and pay them accordingly then, you bellend! Fucking shite management skills, that.

It smacks of exploitation, totally.

CurlyhairedAssassin · 15/09/2018 10:58

The other thing is, if you’re doing more senior tasks, who will be doing the junior tasks you’re currently doing? My bet is they will employ an additional person at your grade and have you doing the more senior work, purely as a money-saving exercise.

I would be going to HR and asking if it’s a standard request. They are there for you as well as him. They may just be horrified.

EmeraldVillage · 15/09/2018 10:59

What is the difference between working at a junior level and a senior level in this context? Are we talking about managing staff, dealing with more complex cases, working longer hours, what? Because I think this makes quite a difference.

RainySeptember · 15/09/2018 11:00

This has always been DH's experience in the private sector : you're asked to step into a role and at some point you hope it's made official.

I guess they can do it because your contract will say something like 'do anything we ask you to do' (paraphrasing!).

I've never known anyone object. DH certainly never has. He's always seen it as a positive thing, that he's well regarded, and it's always paid off.

I think you're supposed to see it as good experience, not dissimilar to the concept of an internship I suppose, but I'd make it clear 18-24 months was unacceptable.

NothingOnTellyAgain · 15/09/2018 11:02

IME (ant RTFT) in private sector it goes:

You have to prove you can work at the higher level before you are given the promotion / pay rise

Hello, I've been working at the higher level where's my promotion / payrise?

Oh sorry there's no money in the pot / you're already being paid the same as the others (lie) / you can have the promotion but not the money / etc etc etc

And you never get the extra money.

Why would they pay you more to do a job you're already doing?

Having said that, I'm not sure what can be done as it's happened to me more than once! Apart from - insist on it in writing that you get the money if you successfully do teh job for x months or soemthing? Dunno.

MsHopey · 15/09/2018 11:06

Myself and DH have both done this for different companies and no promotion or payrise ever materialised. It's just their way of getting jobs done without having to pay them.
It's BS and as it's not even the sector you want to work with I'd probably try and decline.

NothingOnTellyAgain · 15/09/2018 11:06

18-24 months of you working up and he's saying he defininitely won't make it official / give you more money = never. It's 2 years FFS!

Tell him you can wait on the title but you want a payrise. Think of a number and and add some on. Worst he can say is no.

stevesmithsmum · 15/09/2018 11:18

Do you not have a contract of employment? Is there job description attached?

In any case, I’d not be predisposed to work without appropriate remuneration. I value my labour. If your employer wants you to employ you in a different role, they can promote you. This is especially true given it’ll be 18-24 months.

With respect to worrying about terminating your employment if you don’t accept, would that not be grounds for unfair dismissal? I’m not familiar with uk industrial relations.

BlaaBlaaBlaa · 15/09/2018 11:28

I've often worked above and beyond my actual job. In most cases it's resulted in a promotion but in the instances it hasn't I've banked the experience and used it to get a better job.
It very much depends on the sector and whether you want to make forge a career path with this company.

worridmum · 15/09/2018 11:30

It used to be but under the tories you can be basically hired and fired at whim under 2 years of employment (barring discrimination aka race and sex etc but its often hard to prove )

MadameButterface · 15/09/2018 11:36

Agree with @QueenCarrot and @mostdays

If your business model depends on underpaying employees as a matter of course then it is not a viable business model