Self employed and Universal Credit.

[Orangeblossom1976]

"Disaster for self employed' of Universal Credit, apparently...but didn't tax credits prop up hobby businesses, possibly a bit too much? Why shouldn't people...maybe get a part time job as well, or something else if they only work seasonally? I'm not sure. My husband is self amply and we get a little bit of tax credits, which will probably go but think that is fair really.

www.theguardian.com/society/2018/mar/25/universal-credit-self-employed-benefit-slash

Also, not just self employed but think there is also the case with tax credits where they enable bosses to pay low wages and that might need to change.

I used the calculator the other day and universal credit V tax credit etc system it told me the service user would be over £200 a WEEK worse off. They are a 4 child family with one disabled parent claiming PIP and contribution based ESA. The other parent is a self employed driver. They work between school hours (disabled parent can't do drop off/pick up) and all weekend just to keep above the breadline. UC will surely cripple them and almost certainly the working parent will give up work.

How is that a good thing?

Well, we are similar, I claim ESA / PIP and DH is self amply, i guess the driver would have to earn more perhaps? ESA cont based and PIp are outwith UC anyway

self employed, sorry, for typos

Also they could claim childcare costs for before and after school, could work more at weekends, perhaps?

Well, we are similar, I claim ESA / PIP and DH is self amply, i guess the driver would have to earn more perhaps? ESA cont based and PIp are outwith UC anyway

They can't earn more, they already work 44 hours a week.

The PIP and ESA was just to set the picture really. It doesn't affect the outcome either way. Income will drop massively for this couple.

Also they could claim childcare costs for before and after school, could work more at weekends, perhaps?

44 hours a week plus kids and housework and a disabled spouse is enough. Putting children into childcare and working more just wouldn't be practical.

With 44 hrs a week he should be earning more than the minimum income floor surely?

I agree people with disabilities would be supported more, I understand the man in the situation mentioned would also get a carer's credit, on UC not available previously which might help.

It's more this kind of thing I was thinking of.

moneyweek.com/485544/no-hobbyists-shouldnt-get-universal-credit/

What a nasty thread.

With 44 hrs a week he should be earning more than the minimum income floor surely? 

You would think. But SHE earns less now than she did ten years ago, doing the same job. Working as a private hire driver you rely on other people. You may work 44 hours, but every hour you are not being paid a set rate, it is dependent on people getting into the car.

But yeah at the person doing HER best to work for her family.

Oops. The OPs unconscious bias is showing!

YABU. UC is a disaster for pretty much everyone.

Universal credit is a horrendous benefit. In fact it shouldn’t even be called a benefit because it benefits no one. It’s designed to keep the poor poor.

Ok. I sort of agree. If you're self employed and your business isn't providing enough income for you to life off then the onus should be on you to gain alternative employment.

I mean people titting about, for example people on tax credits with a business knitting or something who have paid off the mortgage with an inheritance for example.

Quite possibly OP you might think I'm "tiitting about" but before I explain to you my business and specific circumstances which does include being an LP Carer of a Disabled DC/now Teen - I'd rather hear what you actually do? So far you've said what your DP does, but what do you actually do for a 'business' or employment?

Conts based ESA and PIP aren't out with UC, they fall outside it. The work allowances for UC are actually much more favourable than legacy benefits, so whilst I agree there are a lot of issues (the horrific childcare costs situation, for example) it is not the monster everyone on here seems to think it is, at least not for a lot of people who'll actually be better off. With regard to the OP, I can see her point in that many people claiming working tax credits, which also lifts any benefit cap, do so on the basis of 16 hours p/w self-employment, yet declare wages of, say, £20 per week. Not everyone does this, but a lot do. The argument is that if your self-employment isn't paying as much as minimum wage, why would anyone keep doing it if not to take advantage of the benefit system. Some have valid reasons, some are playing the system, and pretending otherwise is plain daft.

And if you are unemployed and go down the job centre, the first thing they do is try to find something that you can do self employed. Zero hours contracts and self employment are this governments answer to the unemployment figures. Don't blame the self employed, they have probably been coerced into it.

Surely 'hobbyists' lost tax credits a long time ago? The regs are clear, online.

Just jumped over from my own thread. I am self-employed and on UC. I am a single mum with two children under 5 and cannot afford full time childcare (or even wraparound) which would allow me to get a full time job. One does get the free 30 hours at a pre-school, but the long holidays, like the 6 weeks we have just had, would make it impossible to afford full time childcare for both for that period.

It has been very difficult for me. Sometimes I am hitting or above the MIF so my UC get reduced and those months are ok , but other months (like the 6 week summer holidays) I have no childcare so cannot work as much. Those months I do not hit the MIF but my UC still gets reduced and we really struggle.

I honestly think a solution for the majority of parents would be to provide reduced childcare. The 30 hours are great, and I am very appreciative, but realistically what employer is going to agree to employ you from the hours of 10am - 2pm?!

I have looked into wraparound care at other nurseries and pre-schools but they all want a subsidiary for the 30 hours and wraparound. Usually upwards of £50 a day. I just couldn't afford that, and I would be better off in that scenario to not work.

It's ridiculous really.

Eell, I'm on ESA and PIP so not working just now. Sorry about that.

ESA support group, I mean. Which will be separate from UC I think

The problem isn't UC so much as the casualisation of labour. Self employed contracts are becoming widespread and essentially they allow an employer to have employees in all but name but with none of the responsibilities particularly re minimum wage that an employer should have. That UC punishes those in this situation is yet another example of policy ignoring this growing problem. Instead politicians trumpet on about the growing 'army' of self employed people with no admission as to the pitifully low average wage such self employed people typically make, other than to say that the benefits top up system needs to punish them for not earning enough, as though not earning minimum wage through a contract specifically designed to pay less than minimum wage - that is the entire point of these contracts - is a mark of personal failure.