Ex paying more maintenance so no longer feeding/entertaining our child?!

[TheresAlwaysAnAskHole]

You may remember my previous posts about issues with my ex and I've had a lot of stick so it may ring bells!!

Me and ex fell out recently, a minor argument that went too far. He didnt want to sort things out and wanted no communication so I contacted CMS to ensure financial support was not withdrawn following this sudden breakdown of friendship. As he is due his second child it's been a concern he may stop our private agreement and I couldn't speak to him about my concerns s as he cut communication. I believed £80 a month we had previously agreed was accurate from his wages.

Following our argument, he suddenly wanted to sort out differences but actually had discovered that CMS was now involved and he was to go from £80 p/m to £260 p/m. I never expected that. I didn't stop the claim as I felt he was manipulating me and low and behold he hates me again for going ahead as he will not be able to continue taking our son to kickboxing, keeps his Xbox games pass or go for pizzas/cinema etc with our son anymore!

Unbeknownst to me, they pulled out that larger figure because he has a company car. He wanted me to stop the CMS case as it was taking too much due to the company car but refused to share contact details again with me, my opinion was 'he no longer wants to be friends therefore his financial problems are none of my business' and he needs to take the issue up with CMS.

He didn't pay anything or have regular contact for 8 years so he got off lightly for a longtime, I didn't chase him because we got on and I didn't want to cause him stress. It's a major guilt for me because he is expecting a baby with his wife this month but I never expected I'd been 'under paid' so much for four years so I didn't intend for more money. I've had people on here call me jealous and vindictive but it's never been about those things and only 4 weeks ago I'd have laughed if anyone had told me how bad our relationship would be now! I applied for mediation to sort this, and agree a maintenance arrangement but he has refused to take part.

I stopped feeling so bad when I realised my household income is half of his and we support two adults, a teen and a toddler on it. Him and his wife had double our income for just themselves for many years and yet paid me only £80 maintenance whilst enjoying foreign holidays, taking out a mortgage and an expensive wedding - all fine but how much of the money spent was rightfully for me/DS?!

So, last week when he called DS to arrange picking him up he said 'you will have to have tea as I can't afford to buy any now your Mum's gone to CMS and we will just be going to sit at Nanas house'.

DS is 15 so it's not as easy as going to the park or soft play but he just enjoys his Dad's company he's even happy to just be with him, sit at his house or go food shopping for example.

AIBU in thinking he is just being spiteful? Previously they would have gone for food and done something like the arcades or driven back to his house but he claims he is getting a new car and "it won't be as easy to fiddle the mileage".

I offered to pay for him and DS to continue kickboxing and he said 'it doesn't work like that'.

He sees him once a week for 3 hours and the old fortnightly one night sleepover (Friday 5pm until Saturday 2pm) arrangement is replaced with a Saturday 10 - 5 twice a month until 'the baby is in a routine', so a total of 26 hours per month. I'd allow more but ex has never wanted it.

I’m not sure about the company car but if it’s true it won’t matter to my ex he loves his status symbols so wouldn’t be seen in an old banger.

I agree with everything else you say.

£80 was obviously a joke on his part - cheeky git. He will get use to living with a bit less money eventually. The holidays etc would stop when the baby arrives anyway.

I would suggest a date your son can stay over and tell them you are going away for the weekend -spending- -his- -money- BUT be careful it sounds as though they are starting to make accusations trying to imply you are violent. Meet and handover in public places or does your son meet him by himself? Keep notes on everything dates you applied for CMS, dates and comments made, what you said to her and what she said to you. The accusations etc etc etc.

The fear is he/they are going to use this to ditch your son, as you said the timing isn’t great. I would seriously try to get your son to make arrangements directly with his Dad.

He's an absolute cretin. Get the money you deserve to help raise your son and think nothing of it.

Have you sorted out the phone number issue yet?

Crikey don’t help out that selfish man any more!,

Also, it’s better for your son to not see you try and make up for his Dads behaviour. Honestly don’t push for a good relationship, as it just delays accepting and knowing what his Dad is like with him. It could teach your son that to keep a relationship with him he will always have to be extra nice and make up his deficits. That is absolutely not your sons job.

He needs to learn that healthy relationships are not like that, he needs to see you role model that for him.

@ExFury

Unfortunately not. I had hoped if I agreed to £130 maintenance he would agree to share numbers again but he won't. I've decided not to push it anymore as don't want to give him any excuses to not keep contact going. I still believe we should have each others numbers (I have his but he has blocked and deleted both mine and DHs) and I do feel - only using the number for safety reasons - there is no real reason for him to do this. As stated I had not abused having his phone number, I could also phone him off many other sim cards if I was really wanting to harass him!

Lowtide - actually it's much worse if I understand correctly.

It's:

NOTHING for 8 years

AND not even seeing his son regularly during that time

AND still making a piss poor effort on the contact score now

AND 4 YEARS of underpaying by £180pcm

By my reckoning that means he OWES at least £24,960 for the 8 years and £8640 for the last 4 years for a total of £33,600!!!!!! That's almost enough to buy a 2 bed house round here!

Newyear wtf! sometimes I think your posts are just deliberately contrary. This guy is a deadbeat dad! He takes little interest in his son, won't pay MINIMUM child support levels without it being enforced and when it is enforced takes it out on his son while badmouthing his mother to him! BIG parenting FAIL. And I do not believe for a second that he can't afford the kickboxing if he's on approx £30k. Proven by the fact that even op offering to pay didn't have any effect!

He can CERTAINLY Afford to feed his son when his son is with him which is what decent nrps (even some less decent ones) do! It's called PARENTING!

Yes he has a right to create a new family and live his life but NOT to the detriment of the son he had before he even knew them!

This man is a fucking disgrace!

He absolutely is NOT a decent person!

Op STOP defending him and minimising his actions. Even in a nmw job he STILL should have been paying maintenance. His financial problems are not yours and they're DEFINITELY not your sons!

As for new wife - they often think they're somehow "better" than the ex and 'he'd never treat me like that' famous last words!!

Re company car it is included in calculations for taxable income but it won't have made much difference.

He's a pathetic excuse of a father!

@Bananasinpyjamas11

I guess it's just the mother in me wanting to protect my son but agree allowing him to discover what his Dad is like may be kinder in the long run. It's just hard to think my son may feel rejected or unwanted but hopefully on the flip side he will see my DH wanted to be his father even when he had no obligation to him.

@Graphista

^Lowtide - actually it's much worse if I understand correctly.

It's:

NOTHING for 8 years

AND not even seeing his son regularly during that time

AND still making a piss poor effort on the contact score now

AND 4 YEARS of underpaying by £180pcm^

You have that right, maybe he contributed about £200 over that 8 years in random a pairs of shoes on request and underpants at request or a random £50 maintenance that he only paid one or two months. Your figures are scary and I hadn't considered them. Effectively I feel it is my husband who missed out more than my son as mentioned previously, we would have crap phones because we couldn't afford the lastest one whilst ex would flash his newest iPhone and apple watch. But yes there have been times we have used food banks (typical professionals struggling to make ends meet) and even £20 during those times would have been helpful. I am certainly finding this thread cathartic and it's bringing back things I had forgotten about.

OP your ex s not even law abiding/honest as he talks about “fiddling the mileage “” of the. Company. car
Hard to see any redeeming qualities in him.

I empathise with your concerns over your DS’s feelings

YANBU. What a spiteful dickhead, denying his child stuff as he is in a huff. He should be glad that he managed to get away all this time with paying so much less. I hate how some parents resent paying for stuff for their children. I know if me and DH split he would get main custody as I could not look after them on my own really due to disability, and no fucking way would I be looking to pay as little as possible towards their upkeep, and also refusing to buy them stuff, thats disgusting IMO.

I know I did this with my sons Dad, I wasn’t even aware of how much responsibility I took on for ‘making sure DS had a good relationship’. It backfired as I was made the bad guy and Ex put me down to DS, saying he wasn’t seeing him enough etc because of me.

I woke up then! Realised my son was learning that me doing everything for his Dad and silently carrying the can meant his Dad must be right and he was thinking this how relationships are. It’s a bad thing for them to learn unfortunately.

Bananas your posts on this thread are brilliant

Yea it's scary what they get away with. I calculated what my ex owes (unreliable payer but clever enough to stay under the radar most of the time) once roughly. Not as bad as you as he didn't earn as much but still well over £15k. Considering I'm a disabled Lp (he's not even seen dd in several years) unable to work due to ill health which means I haven't been able to provide dd with half the things I could have if he had paid it. Not talking luxuries necessarily just a few more days out, slightly better quality clothes and shoes, being able to participate in certain clubs and hobbies she'd have enjoyed.

Would also have meant I didn't have debt, wouldn't have had times when I went without food, clothes, times when I went to bed in daytime in winter wearing leggings and t-shirts under pyjamas and wearing a hat in order to save money on heating. So that dd never went without necessities.

Bananas I had a similar experience. All the advice is "don't bad mouth the ex to your child" "don't lay adult problems on them" - so I protected ex thinking I was doing so for dds sake, didn't tell her why we split, made excuses when he let her down repeatedly, didn't tell her about his not paying cm regularly and in full...

Then it backfired. First was when she was learning about sex and learned pregnancy 9 months long - her eldest half sibling was born only 7 months after we split, she saw a text when he yet again cancelled a contact last minute for no good reason (he was army so by this point contact was during school holidays), HE made a big thing of "I pay your mum £X every month for you" - she was defending me challenging him, he'd criticised me not doing more with her holidays etc, she'd said mum can't afford it, that was his retort.

A - he wasn't paying it every month and even when he did pay not always in full

B - she was still quite young, 10, and £X seemed like a lot of money. It was left to me to explain that actually it wasn't when cost of living was £££.

Conversations since those events on this subject with her, she feels I deceived her, in presenting him as a caring dad when he never really was.

One time majorly backfired on him though. He tried to claim I was obstructive re contact (reality: I bent over backwards including paying all transport costs - which sometimes exceeded the cm he was supposed to pay), he threatened to show dd "proof" mainly meaning solicitors letters and court documents from when we were trying to sort contact when dd was much younger. Dd was talking to him on phone with speaker on but he didn't know I was there. But because I knew he had none, I gave dd the nod to call his bluff. He back-pedalled furiously!

Even if he had sent her those papers, she'd have seen that he repeatedly broke contact orders, repeatedly cancelled contact without good reason, acted inappropriately when he was supposed to have contact (turning up drunk, belligerent, or hungover, or several hours late and then kicking off if I said no because it was almost dinner or bedtime).

It's a minefield. But one that nrps never seem to make any easier.

@MadameButterface thanks! I learnt the hard way and very late.

Ex just picked DS up, says if either of us come out he will drive off (he did this last week as DH tried to go to speak to him), he parks 50 metres away even thought he could park outside our house. Sent with a 'packed lunch' to cook at his Nana's house, hope there are people there and ex is embrassed as DS won't think twice about saying why he's brought his own food, he has no sense of discretion . Imagine driving around in a new top of the range company car and claiming you can't afford to feed your son!

Well done OP, hope that helps him see how ridiculous he is being.

You sound fab and have given your ex chance after chance when he doesn’t deserve it - as sad as it would be for your DS to give up on his biological dad, it sounds inevitable unless he changes his behaviour. At least he has you and your DP to rely on x

Thank you, it is no hardship for me to feed my son I've been doing it for years but packing up his food for him to take to cook elsewhere, me and DH couldn't help but laugh at how pathetic this man is being(DS wasn't there), I almost packed a toilet roll but thought that would be a bit goady 😁and as he was going to his Nana's house it would look like an insult to her when it's aimed at his father!

He is supposed to be with his father 10 - 15 on Saturday, I've asked DS to ask him about food arrangements for that day, is he planning on feeding him or requiring a packed lunch?! What shall I pack? 😉

He’s an absolutely pathetic excuse for a father. So sick of men who think they shouldn’t have to parent or provide for the children they’ve had. Usually they’re the first to scream about their “rights” too.

Seriously, you need to disengage from this man. Don’t be sending your son with packed lunches and money. Don’t be asking him to ask his dad stuff for you. Just make sure he’s ready at the agreed time and send him out. He’s 15, his nan won’t let him starve. And if things get bad, he can walk home, right?

Just the packed lunch comes across as passive aggressive, tit for tat. That isn’t what this situation needs.

Sorry twoblueshoes but you've clearly never dealt with an ex like this. They absolutely will not think twice about leaving a child hungry if it's to score points. My ex used to return dd in nappies that had clearly needed changing at least an hour earlier just because he wouldn't do it, it was 'her job' such menial tasks were beneath him. I also wouldn't put it past him to tell his mother (nan) that child HAD been fed and 'was being greedy'. Or even some of the 'nans' can be just as bad!

He’s 15 though, not 5. He’s not a baby.

My my answer would be totally different if he was younger, but at 15 the OP needs to step back.

A 15 yr old still isn't in a position of power, it can be very hard for young people to speak up when they don't feel confident they'll be heard or worse if it could make matters worse.

DS definitely doesn't dare to rock the boat. The packed lunch was a must because ex said he couldn't afford to get him his dinner 'now I've gone for child maintenance' and I hadn't had chance to cook today by this deadline. I also begrudge cooking food before he collects him AND sorting another meal for DH, me and DD, why should he control my afternoon that way if us three wouldn't usually eat that early!? DD has just gone full time at school and is serving when she gets home so doesn't need her dinner until later now.

Without the food sent, I'm certain ex would either bring DS straight home or feed him and then tell me next time he can't go if he hasn't had anything to eat beforehand. This is his logic. Then if I hold out and refuse to feed him before ex collects him he will say it's my fault he can't have my son because I won't feed him and just like the issue regarding phone numbers, I have to back down to make sure DS doesn't lose out. I do think this is not something I will be doing long term and hope he realises and feels ashamed of what he is doing re:food.

As a sidenote, I've had a call from someone who knows what's been going on - they are in a new trendy ice cream parlour in town! I'm waiting to see what DS tells me in regards to this, possibly my son has paid out of his birthday money (I hope not!) or the Nan has give them money so they aren't sat over her for 3 hours!

God what a selfish piece of shit.
He paid you nothing for so long and is pissed cause he got caught.
Absolutely fk him.