To not appreciate Serena using sexism in her arguments against umpire

[user1471517900]

Sorry if there is a thread, I did scan four pages to check.

Serena gets coached (which her coach admits) but claims she didn't see it. Then smashes a racquet in separate fit of temper. Then tells the umpire she can't be a cheat because she's a mother(!), he will never referee a match again with her, and he's a thief.

The punishments all seem fine to me and I really felt for Osaka having to apologise in her winners speech. Serena should be saying sorry today IMO.

Absolutely Ferrier. Carlos Ramos is a highly respected umpire and I've sat behind him when he has given code and time violations to male, white tennis players.

I was a big fan of Serena, she is am amazing tennis player, but on this occasion, she was wrong.

Three violations. Most players check themselves after one

"SW didn't see her coach, "

Then how did she know the action included a thumbs up gesture when she was trying to explain it away in her interaction with the import directly after receiving the warning?

• umpire

Not import

'Calling the umpire a liar is absolutely nothing to what they've been called in the past...
'the worst umpire on the planet'
dirty scum (Nick Kyrios)'

Yeah not nice!

Serena followed through with Sexist accusation. That to me doesn't ring true that she was genuinely fighting for women's rights. She was wanting to get him back.

No idea, maybe the umpire told her that is what she was being penalised for? Maybe she was explaining that she had seen him gives a thumbs up and did not know that he had done anything else?

Maybe all sorts of explanations, including you using a soundbite that doesn't convey the meaning in the original post!

"Roussette

Calling the umpire a liar is absolutely nothing to what they've been called in the past...
'the worst umpire on the planet'
dirty scum (Nick Kyrios)"

In terms of abusing an official Serena's is worse than kyrios.
His implies is an accusation of incompetence or a lack of ability, hers implies deliberate cheating and dishonesty.

Not sure about that MQ I think it's very insulting to be called 'dirty scum'!

Serena lost her temper (not unlike very many other tennis players, most of whom are men)

It was a situation that escalated badly

ChelleDawg2020
YANBU. Both the Williams sisters are appalling characters, but Serena is the worse of the pair.

She has the arrogance that all elite sportspeople have; however, most of them are too concerned with their public image to act like a spoilt brat to the extent that Williams does.

It's not sexist, or racist, or any other form of discrimination, for a sportsperson who breaks the rules to be punished according to those rules.

I couldn't agree more - hideous - hope they retire soon.

It was a situation that escalated badly and, as many commentators seem to agree, tennis lost a lot in that one exchange!

Jumping the tread …. I listened to Sue Barker, who is eminently sensible and she said Serina was correct - tennis is sexist, the male players aggressively challenge the umpires all the time and receive no penalty for doing so - but the women do. And (I forget the female player) got docked a game for changing her shirt on court - male players do it frequently with no such penalty.

I am horrified for Osaka and hate Serena's "my baby is the first baby to ever exist" attitude

Yup. She seems to think she's the first woman ever to give birth, and that the act of doing so means she cannot be criticised.

And accusations of sexism or racism might - might - have merit if Williams' opponent was a white male. But it was a non-white woman.

I am sorry l haven't read the full thread but let me guess ....she lost the match ..... it's sour grapes then simple as...................

Her behaviour was a disgrace. She has had a lot of success in her sport and has beaten a lot of people. Now she was beaten and she took it very badly. She should be barred from the game for a time or at least get some sort of reprimand or punishment. What a poor example to young people and in fact everyone who takes part in sport.

She rabbits on like she's the first person to have ever given birth. 'I have a daughter! I could have died!' Big deal. I have 2 of those. And a son as well.

This isn't the first time she's been beaten.

I think Sue Barker has nailed it.

From her....
But Serena in some ways has a point in the fact that I've sat courtside watching the men ranting at umpires and (they) haven't been given a violation.

Serena has certainly been on the receiving end of racism in tennis as well as sexism for s long as she has been playing. Some of the commentary around both WIlliams sisters in the early days went way beyond dog whistle racism, as they because so successful it receded into a less overt form.

As for Ramos treating everyone equally and doing things by the book, some examples of how white, mostly male players were treated after swearing or similar to Ramos on receiving a code violation:

twitter.com/AgentTinsley/status/1038619677688135686

as they because so successful

should be "as they became so successful"

There is loads of inconsistency in umpiring, as some umpires are stricter than others. Carlos Ramos gave Andy Murray a code violation at the Olympics for saying "stupid umpiring" and is always strict with all players male or female.

Racquet throwing is sometimes ignored, but if the racquet breaks this is an automatic code violation and I have never seen any umpire ignore it.

A lot of players behave badly, but most know when to stop. Serena really should have known that she would not get away with calling Carlos Ramos a liar.

Great link C8. That sums it up

She behaved badly. Trying to excuse her because of racism or sexism is wrong.

'A lot of players behave badly, but most know when to stop. Serena really should have known that she would not get away with calling Carlos Ramos a liar.'

Yeah - it was the way she was furiously pointing and jabbing her finger at him as well. I felt sorry for him at that point and wonder how's he gonna deal with this.

There is no doubt in my view that Ramos with out of line with Serena in the first place.
Her response was not great I agree.
But if you have never been on the receiving end of racism and sexism and I often get both - it is impossible to explain the mix of humiliation and rage that courses through you and how hijacked you feel by those emotions. It must be a million times harder during a high pressure situation like this.
Shame on Ramos for letting the situation escalate.
Serena has not covered herself in glory either of course but that doesnt change the fact that Ramos is responsible for initiating and aggravating the situation. It is his job as the umpire - among other things- to keep a cool head and calm the situation down.

This umpire is known for penalising players when they break the rules and not letting things slide. His record backs up that nothing about his choices yesterday was unusual. He’s penalised male players plenty, including in Grand Slam finals. Rafael Nadal’s gotten more penalties in matches from this umpire for far more minor infractions.

Serena was breaking the rules. That’s not in question. Her coach was being very blatant about coaching her. It doesn’t actually matter if she didn’t see him, since he’s her employee and her responsibility, but she clearly did see him because she did exactly what he gestured at her to do immediately. He also told the press he coaches her on every point. They’ve been together for years, so it’s not like he’d be bothering with the constant sidelines coaching if she never pays any attention to him.

After that, she smashed her racquet. Had she not already received a warning she probably would have got away with that, but once you get a warning that’s the cue to be on your best behaviour basically, and instead she almost immediately committed another violation.

Then she went off on the umpire. Umpires have been called worse, yes, but rarely right to their face like that. Players who mouth something ugly or say something about the umpire to themselves or their team often get away with it because there’s usually a little bit of deniability there. Umpires also rarely care if players swear about the penalty, say fuck off or whatever under their breath etc. But if you call the umpire a thief and a liar and threaten their job to their face, you’re going to be penalised, especially after two other infractions. You can get frustrated, you can argue, you can make it clear you think it’s a BS call, but you don’t get personal to the umpires face.

As for the McEnroe comparisons, he was penalised a lot, but the rules and standards have also changed a lot since he played. Plus he was always considered a ridiculous, whining, ragey jackass, even by the fans who loved his game and found his lunacy entertaining. If Serena wants to be thought of in those terms then that’s one thing, but she clearly wants to be thought of as a role model.

She is reaching for the ‘isms’ because she behaved disgracefully and, I suspect, is heading for a lengthy ban.

Generally players are particularly well behaved during finals, respecting their opponents, the arena and the vips in the crowd.

She has form for aggression to umpires and some have gone so far as to question whether her extreme outbursts are due to certain performance enhancing substances.

Men get treated just the same. The only sense in which she is a role model is her success and fighting spirit. That is it.

Men do NOT get treated the same. That is the issue and what Chris Evert and Billie Jean King are pointing out. Im not sure about the rule about posting from threads from other forums but here is an extract that i thought was interesting.

Rafa threatened the ump with never officiating again that and got nothing but a warning. Rafa got into it with Carlos Bernardes and threatened his job. All of tennis supported Rafa. David Ferrer, who was loved by all, went off on a female chair ump when she warned him for cursing and he had a nice little tantrum screaming at her that "You are a woman, women can't do anything" and on. I don't think he was even fined.
At another tournament Ferrer hit a ball with his racquet in anger and hit a linesman. The umpire did nothing. Leyton Hewitt got pissed when he got called for foot faults when playing against James Blake and accused the chair ump of who was black of calling in favor of Blake who was also black. No fine. No penalty no nothing.
I can go on for days about things Hewitt. He called a line judge and idiot and the chair ump a moron and everyone put up with it. Andy Roddick, omg, what he got away with. He loved to tell chair umps in lovely terms that they were intellectually deficient. John Isner also goes nuts pretty often. So many of the players have their moments. I could go on for days about the fits tennis players have thrown and directed at umps and lines people.
Agassi was another great one. He screamed at a chair ump to get his fat ass out of the chair and check a mark on the court. No fine. He spit on a chair umpire who let it go until after he saw the tv footage. I was surprised they actually punished Fabio Fognini for calling the female chair ump a whore and a pig. These are just some of the instances I remember. I could google every top 20 player and find matches where they went off and got a warning at most.

What is a basic truth about tennis is that the top male players rarely get called out for their behavior. Only Nick Kyrios gets any punishment and he's a complete ass. Everyone bends over backwards to pat him on the back when he acts decent for 5 minutes. One of the best chair umps of all time, Mohamed Lahyani, got bad press because during one of Kyrios' matches last week he came down from his chair to ENCOURAGE this asshat when he started acting like an asshat.

I've read tennis forums for as long as they have existed on the internet and, across the board until the last 5 years, the comments about Serena have been vile, disgusting, and racist. Anytime any one mentioned a match the comments about her looking like and ape, or a pig, or being fat piled on.