The tax system in this country is unfair and penalises hard work

[renouncefifty]

I have just finished an assignment working 20 days straight and put in nearly 300 hours. Im exhausted but have a week off to recuperate.

I get overtime for every hour over 8 hours a day I work and overtime for weekends all day. I just realised I've "earnt" £9000 this month which sounds fantastic BUT over £3000 is going in Tax and god knows how much in NI. I dont get a full personal tax allowance as im taxed on my private health insurance premium. I will be lucky to see 5.5k of that money. Oh im in scotland so we pay a penny more per pound in tax also.

I just think sometimes why bother ?

Is Kelly the carers role important to society- yes Does she deserve to earn a living wage and take pride In her work- of course Should she earn the same as or be compared to a heart surgeon- hmm HELL NO

You actually think I’m stupid? It has sod all to do with entry requirements and training and everything to do with the concept of ‘hard work’. Kelly the carer May never have been a heart surgeon but what the OP and others persistently suggest is that minimum wage work, because lots of people qualify to do it, isn’t actually hard work. Neither do they recognise that whilst we can’t all be rocket scientists, we don’t actually need - locally, nationally or globally - anywhere near as many rocket scientists as we do Kelly the carers. As such, plenty of people who have actually qualified to be rocket scientists end up doing jobs that need far less qualification than they possess. They still work hard. They are not necessarily better at their jobs because they got loads of qualifications, and neither are they necessarily any better at the job than the person with no qualifications.

You are not better than anyone who goes out and earns a living and nothing could persuade me otherwise. You do ‘t have a claim over ‘hard work’ just because you earn more than some - and most certainly less than others.

WTF

I earn 13k per year. Out of that I pay 1k tax and NI, 1k council tax, 2k other bills, 3k childcare. It doesn't leave me a lot to play with. And I work really, really hard for that 13k.

I think it is unfair that I pay tax, national insurance and council tax.

Which country's tax system would you prefer? We are fairly lowly taxed really, compared to the rest of Europe - even the US

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/money/2017/may/27/tax-britons-pay-europe-australia-us

Or would you prefer the 1970s style tax, where the top rate was 83%?

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-staggers/2012/03/rate-income-tax-budget-labour%3famp

In general, I find it difficult to sympathise with this complaint. And I am not bitter, I earn more than the OP. And if being taxed at this rate means I live in a country with schools, roads, healthcare etc then it seems worth it to me.

And if I really had a problem with it, I am of course at liberty to quit my job and apply for as many benefits as I may be eligible for.

They should tax everyone at the same rate, get rid of all the bureaucracy that goes into policing and administrating all these different levels of taxation, get rid of waste and ensure that everyone is paying.I bet all this would pay for itself but they will not change things cause I suspect it's in their interest to keep it like this.

I live in Ireland where if you work enough to pay tax, you get sweet nothing of what all your tax pays for. In a lot of cases you'd be better off on the dole than a low income job, which is really wrong.

renouncefifty

We worked out that if we worked two 12 extra shifts we got paid the same as three.

The answer is simple don't work the extra shifts, no-one is making you.

People always focus on income tax, but we also pay tax in the form of VAT. It may be that high earners pay a disproportionately high amount of total tax, however because of VAT low earners pay a proportionally high amount of there total income in tax, because they have no choice but to spend all of their money whereas high earners typically save a significant amount in pensions savings and investments. Income tax is the fairest way to tax us.

I agree that it’s scandalous that companies such as Amazon avoid paying their fair share. There is huge inequality in the U.K. and those earning high amounts may complain but they rarely decide to earn less.

hey should tax everyone at the same rate, get rid of all the bureaucracy that goes into policing and administrating all these different levels of taxation

Then the poorest would end up paying even more in tax because tax is more than just income tax. It’s also all the other taxes which are not based on income.

I think, for me, those complaining about high income tax while getting over £5,000 in cash, are illustrating greed at its worse quite frankly.

I bet the responses from those siding with the OP would be different if the post was about a minimum wage earner not getting enough. They’d be told to find a higher paid job, or be lucky that they had a job etc. There would be no cries of “yes you’ve worked so hard and don’t deserve to so highly taxes”.

People think a high salary means that that person is actually worth more in society. Bollocks to that. It is just money - which is only one measure of value.

what incentive is there to work harder when the government takes half ?

You are a PAYE employee and you think the government takes half?

mo rebate. I will probably do the same hours maybe a little less next month.

So in 2 months you will have brought home 11k? Yes you work hard but that's your choice. Unless you work that hard all year you will eventually be due a tax rebate of some kind anyway.

And If you work like this all year you will have 66k take home pay a year!!

So no I don't feel sorry for you.

Op I can see where you are coming from

Tax is theft

@hateisnotgood

I’ve paid a lot of tax in the many years I’ve worked before.

The problem with paying it, for me and in all honesty is fear. I’m afraid that when I go over that threshold I’ll be swamped with tax debt and if I get something wrong fines. Honestly, it isn’t a kind place for a small business owner IMO.

I’ve not paid NI yet as expect to pay a lump sum when my accountant tells me to. Which also costs me money.

If I didn’t do what I do, I’d have no job due to child care commitments and husbands shifts. We can’t get benefits for help as he earns too much. And despite his hefty wage, we have little left over income each month from his salary once mortgage pension bills car hobbies food and fuel etc are paid for.

I want luxuries so I made my own work. Anyway, I digress somewhat. In effect I’ll be working some hours for nothing if I have to start paying tax. Which we all do I guess.m but own business wise I’d rather be with my family than working extra to give it away.

If that makes sense. Don’t hate me.

When kids are in school I’ll work a lot more though. So I’ll pay tax again one day ✌🏻

Dh's tax is about 5.5K a month, I earn just under the personal allowance. And yes I feel a bit bloody ill when I think about the amount of tax our household pays out but we're very fortunate to be in that position.
We need to pay taxes my dc go to school and the nhs treated my dd when she had cancer.
I'd like a bigger fucking wheelie bin though or at the very least not have to pay for a replacement bin that the bin men cracked.

Don't worry quick I do very much the same myself - I'm self-employed too for much the same reasons as you. I don't use an accountant but do spend a lot of time earning very little working on the accounts of other self-employed people in the same position as you, me and lot's of others too.

I wouldn't be too afraid of paying a bit of tax and NI, if you're earning enough as a Sole Proprietor to do that, than you're doing ok. Well done!

I don't understand why it's always suggested other people work just as hard in lesser paid jobs. Of course some do, that's obvious. But generally unless you're a footballer you're going to be earning a high salary for a reason. Specialist skills or knowledge, more risk and responsibility on your shoulders etc.

I'm in agreement with the OP. It's not about complaining about paying tax or it going on those who need it. It's about the burden being so much more focused on the middle earners than the top. The lowest earners obviously can't shoulder more of it, but the higher could and should.

I don't think the OP is saying they begrudge how tax is spent. But at times you do have to wonder what the incentive is for career progression at that level.

YANBU OP. Taxation is theft.

You guys are bloody lucky some of the Better nations in Europe pay a damn sight more in tax (there schools hospitals, infrastructure is a lot better wages are higher yet the UK is a low tax, low wage nation so all us plebs can work long hours for minimum wage or slightly above that to make the Rich richer).

People on minimum wage work a lot harder then some of the people i work with yet the people i work with earn minimum of 10x the amount the lowest earners of the company earn.

They work 6-7 hour days, they get a PAID lunch hour, they can take time off when ever they want they have 38 days holiday + bank holidays. They get 5 star hotels and first class (board members) or business class for the rest of the high earners. They have amazing pension schemes 80% of the people in the company i currently work for are there simply because the contacts (either family or friends of the family).

Lets contrast this with the people down the totem ladder that deal with the vast majority of the stress. The lowest wrung of the ladder is minimum wage and they want at least a 2.1 degree, to get a starting salary of around £9 they want a distinction from a MASTERS course. They have to work 10+ hours a day and all have terms meaning they have to do unpaid overtime. They are forced to travel company only pays for the cheapest possible flights and accommodation at one point i had to challenge a manager because they were sending staff to a camp site because that's how much she had budgeted for the assistant staff she needed (but she must be in her 5 star hotel, but the company left it too late to book staff into cheap hotels and were expecting the admin / juniors to camp for 1 week as they were not prepared to pay for £120 a night rooms for what she called "peons".

Yet 3 of the "senor" managers just out of University got 2.2s and 3rds but because they had connections jumped over all the rest whom were better motivated better skilled, yet less contacts so started on the lowest totem poll.

They also bemoan the fact they work "hard" yet so much of their hard earned money goes in taxes to support the peons that work for them (I bloody kid you not this is a conversation i was forced to listen too in the management staff room.

Nepotism at it finest yet people that are not well connected simply did not work hard enough.

Meh. My dp works around 70hrs most weeks, so jolly hard and in a physically demanding and stressful job. Last month he earnt over £2k, but tax and ni was nearly £400....at that income level it makes you want to weep tbh. Tax and ni sucks but we all have to pay it, just be grateful you have more disposable income than most after hmrc take their cut!

@MeteorGarden are you completely ignorant to the fact that being able to attain higher education and having access to a variety of career choices is often linked to coming from a well connected family and having access to money to fund education and internships (for example)? It's a circle that continues to benefit the already wealthy, disproportionately. Please note the use of 'disproportionately' as I am fully aware there are always exceptions.

QuickNC I was self employed for 3 years earning between 28-33k. I paid about 5k in tax and NI a year so still came away with at least 22k, I don’t understand how you think you’d be working for nothing? And I didn’t put through loads of expenses, I hardly got anything deducted because I could never be arsed to keep receipts

Given that the British empire completely fucked up these countries, it should pay something back!!

How many billions are we going to have to pay for how many decades or centuries? It's this kind of far left nonsense that makes me support the OP 100%!

Poor you!

I heard a wise person once say that if hard work was rewarded fairly then African women would be the richest people in the world.

Op. You say you could have a similar take home pay without the additional stress of working those overtime hours. So do that.

You ask what's the incentive to work harder. Who do you think should incentivize you for working 70 hours a week? Other than your employer who offers you paid overtime. The UK is still in Eu working time directive. Why shouldn't your employer employ someone else so you can delegate and stick to a more manageable workload and keep a higher proportion of your gross salary?

i have no words.