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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that sex offenders should forfeit the right to change gender

77 replies

doedoe90303811 · 04/09/2018 16:28

Gary Cooper raped multiple girls by posing as a 15yo girl called Carrie.

www.itv.com/news/meridian/2012-11-15/online-paedophile-jailed-for-14-years/

He's now in prison identifying as a woman called Carrie, and is on trial for the sexual abuse of a 7yo girl.

www.hertfordshiremercury.co.uk/news/hertfordshire-news/hertford-woman-face-trial-after-1195025
www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/local-news/littlehey-prison-paedophiles-cambridgeshire-cooper-15108328

AIBU to think that as part of sex offender rehabilitation it's dangerous to allow him the delusion that he is, or ever can be, a female called Carrie? And not to mention insulting to the victims in view of the fact that he committed these offences because he is male and they are female?

OP posts:
LittleKitty1985 · 04/09/2018 22:30

@gamerchick So criminals don't deserve any human rights? Wow.

Anyway, I haven't been defending her sexual assaults, which are of course deserving of punishment. My issue with many of the comments here is simply the transphobia and lack of logical thinking.

TerfedOff · 04/09/2018 22:33

Busy wanted me to let you know that she's been a member since 2007 but for some reason she's been ejected because of her posting history tonight. None of which was at all rude or offensive.

gamerchick · 04/09/2018 22:40

gamerchick So criminals don't deserve any human rights? Wow.

No I'm asking you a direct question. This is a nonce, a child sex offender. Do you think this person has rights?

Don't generalise.....this person. On its own on this thread. Does this person deserve it how you've responded to this thread?

picklemepopcorn · 05/09/2018 07:00

Terfed, what!?

missusZee · 05/09/2018 07:07

"However rape is a male crime."

In the UK.

No, I don't think anyone should be deprived of anything besides their liberty for a crime. More than that is revenge and we've moved beyond that as a society.

Prisons won't be over-run by trans people despite what the anti-trans brigade like to propagate. Prisoners are assessed according to threat, amongst other things.

TerfedOff · 05/09/2018 07:15

KateMumsnet

HiTerfedOff

We don't discuss individual users, but some people have been temporarily suspended for the same issue - ignoring MNHQ requests. We'll be getting in touch with them soon

InfiniteSheldon · 05/09/2018 07:21

It's getting very Orwellian in here

Atthebottomofthesea · 05/09/2018 07:25

It is not anti-trans to question the wisdom of allowing a person with a penis and a history of sexual offences to be housed with (natal) women.

Atthebottomofthesea · 05/09/2018 07:30

Posted too early.

'That would never happen' has happened

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-44877856

though of course the women involved are lying

Concerns about safeguarding should not be shouted down with calls of transphobia. Suggest potential solutions, but just sticking Jimmy in a women's prison because they want to be called Jane is not the right answer.

picklemepopcorn · 05/09/2018 07:37

"Ministry of Justice (MoJ) guidance says in the "great majority" of cases transgender prisoners are allowed to "experience the system" in the gender in which they identify."

So several women have to be assaulted so that individual men can experience being a woman in prison.

Right oh.

PositivelyPERF · 05/09/2018 07:42

they're cis or trans cis is a banned bullshit made up terminology on Mumsnet. You’ve a bloody cheek whining about a rapist’s right to be called she (he’s a man, by the way) while using a term most posters find insulting.

straightjeans · 05/09/2018 07:59

Can change his gender all he wants, as long as he isn't transferred to a female prison. He would be an immediate threat to the safety of all the women there.

missusZee · 05/09/2018 07:59

@picklemepopcorn "

They're nearly the same but you haven't seen the difference between 'have to be' and 'have been'.

You also ignored the "great majority" aspect. The great majority of people are not a threat to anyone, in prison or out of it.

picklemepopcorn · 05/09/2018 08:13

Missus, I don't agree! It is clear to those of us who care about women that a man should not have been put in a women's prison in order that they can 'experience being a woman'. It is clear that they were not removed until women had been assaulted. So women had to be assaulted to in order for him to be removed from somewhere he should never have been.

As for the great majority- the great majority of the men who are in prison for assaulting women will by definition assault women given the opportunity.

It's very weird explaining this. It's like explaining that cold feels cold.

LittleKitty1985 · 05/09/2018 08:14

@gamerchick I believed EVERY human being has rights, including this person, & that criminals should not be defined by their crime. We have a criminal justice system in this country that aims to punish but also rehabilitate. Providing treatment for mental health issues (including gender dysphoria) is an important part of that rehabilitation.

You obviously think you know better than forensic professionals, but luckily for disadvantaged minority groups (such as trans people) you are not the one making decisions about who deserves basic human rights. Go check your ego!

@missusZee Glad to see someone else here who isn't allowing negative emotions to cloud their judgement Smile

ShrodingersSturdyPyjamas · 05/09/2018 08:16

So as she now doesn't want to be male nor have a penis

What makes you think this person doesn't want their penis?

Don't around 85% of men who identify as women, keep theirs and have every intention of doing so?

missusZee · 05/09/2018 08:26

@picklemepopcorn

I don't know how to begin to address your comments.

"It is clear to those of us who care about women" suggests that anyone who doesn't agree with you doesn't care about women. The only response here is, fuck off.

"So women had to be assaulted to in order for him to be removed"

Yes. We wait until a crime is committed as opposed to thought crime.

"from somewhere he should never have been."

You say this as though it's a fact when it demonstrably isn't.

"the great majority of the men who are in prison for assaulting women will by definition assault women given the opportunity. "

You're confusing (unsubstantiated) statistics and erroneous definitions.

"It's very weird explaining this."

Yes. Your "explanation" was weird.

straightjeans · 05/09/2018 08:29

Weird how a few of you are making defending a paedophile the hill you die on. Couldn't be me.

ShrodingersSturdyPyjamas · 05/09/2018 08:41

I know, right.

Almost as if there is some sort of agenda.

PositivelyPERF · 05/09/2018 08:44

Almost as if there is some sort of agenda.

Couldn’t agree more.

Prestonsflowers · 05/09/2018 08:54

Nooo, there couldn’t possibly be an agenda

Aeroflotgirl · 05/09/2018 08:56

I don't know why people on here are defending sex offenders, it is not only insulting to women, but the victims of their crime. It is questionable why, when in prison they suddenly want to change their gender. Is it so that they can gain access to Females? Not only have they assulted and abused women, now they suddenly want to become one, maybe so they can continue that abuse. Or is it so that they can have an easy ride in prison, being with women, or in the medical section. Questionable to say the least.

Aeroflotgirl · 05/09/2018 08:57

That sex offender that you are defending, could have targeted you, or your dd, how do you feel about that!

charlestonchaplin · 05/09/2018 09:32

Littlekitty
I'll be brief as I have to get some work done. The vast majority of transgender people do not experience gender dysphoria. In any case human rights are rarely absolute and clashing rights need to be managed. It is debatable whether anyone has an absolute right to have the State recognise an untruth as the truth, which is what happens when trans people have birth certificates and passports altered to show their new gender. I'd need to reacquaint myself with the European Convention of Human Rights, which the UK is signed up to.

I believe people should be able to dress and present themselves how they like but there is certainly a great case for denying sex offenders any official recognition of gender change. Especially as some forensic professionals have identified a growing number of individuals who are seeking to change gender (to transwomen) in order to transfer to women's prisons. Not because they are genuinely transgender but because they think it will be easier experience or to have access to more victims to abuse. Can someone please help me out by providing a link to the relevant statement?

In relation to the poster who said a DBS will reveal past convictions, that's not good enough! We should be able to identify past offences if they have been reported in the media. We shouldn't have to do a DBS check. As my sister said, changing gender seems to be the perfect way to leave your past behind.

Popchyk · 08/09/2018 14:44

Gary (Carrie) Cooper has been found guilty of eight charges of sexual assault and one assault by penetration after attacking a young girl.

metro.co.uk/2018/09/08/rapist-transgender-woman-found-guilty-despite-calling-new-abuse-case-bks-7925539/

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