Golliwogs...

[GoodNewsTwo]

A colleague of mine today put a small golliwog figurine on her desk. Said she's always liked them and that she doesn't see an issue. I explained that some people (myself included) find them offensive and dated, and think they are too controversial for a workplace setting. As a black woman, I don't really like to sit and look at it all day. I'm sure many people wouldn't regardless of their ethnicity/race. AIBU to ask her again to remove it? I don't want to be 'that girl' who has an issue with race (I don't) - on this occasion, I just feel extremely uncomfortable.

wwyd?

@UghNoWay I have no idea. I have had the most unbelievably busy day and have spent all but 20 minutes outside of the office in meetings! I believe my manager would have removed it.

I live in a mid-sized urban conglomeration that's not quite London, but also hardly all white and saw a woman in the town centre (as multi-cultural as it gets here) with gollywog keyrings attached to her shopping trolley this summer. These people are to be found anywhere they can get away with it.

OP,
I believe my manager would have removed it.

You would hope so! They should really have let you know what happened. If you are in the office tomorrow you will be walking in there without knowing if the ornament will be there or even if the woman will be there .... could be VERY awkward. 👀

Potentially s 4 or 5 offences against the person act (racially aggravated form) but very unlikely to be prosecuted until or unless the workplace has dealt with it through their own anti harassment bullying discrimination policies. Sounds as if the employees card has been marked and would be astounded if she isn’t now in disciplinary situation along lines of formal warning etc.

Yeah there’s no way they’d be prosecuted.

Sadly, a majority (or at least a large portion)of British people don’t view golliwogs as racist.

Ok fair enough @GoodNewsTwo. However, I’d like to make it clear that I did not ‘join in’ with anything. I saw the title and posted. I don’t know what was said before or after me. I also don’t have a habit of looking at the time between when a thread was started and when I posted so didn’t know it was three hours.

I also don’t do background checks on posters so have no idea whether a poster is genuine or has a dodgy history. If I think someone’s a racist or any other ist I’m going to say it loud and clear.

However, I admit I called it wrong on this occasion. It’s also totally ok that you have ‘now seen my true colours’ as I wasn’t looking to build a long term friendship. That said, hope you’re okay and hope this all gets resolved ASAP. All the best.

I saw them for sale in a shop in Cornwall today, renamed golly dolls. I'm certain they wouldn't have got away with it where I live. Aside from them being very offensive, i can't understand why some people do like them, they are creepy and weird, I don't get why they are still made at all let alone why someone would buy one and display it on their desk?

Yeah there’s no way they’d be prosecuted.

Sadly, a majority (or at least a large portion)of British people don’t view golliwogs as racist.

I agree with this. There was a case where a man was convicted for displaying a golliwog doll but he put it in a noose!
www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/man-golliwog-hanging-noose-window-14596570.amp

But this woman had her charges dropped
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-15429369

With criminal law you almost always need to show a 'guilty mind' as well as 'guilty actions' which would make it harder to prove.

In terms of employment law, I think they could potentially fire her if they think it amounts to gross misconduct, although I'd be more inclined to give a warning. I hated employment law though as so much of it is fact-sensitive and will depend on the employer's policies though so someone who specialises in this area might have a different view.

You can't get an official warning for it, unless management could prove it was intended to cause offence.

You seem to know an awful lot about the disciplinary policy of an unspecified company you don’t work for.

“Oddly enough, I saw two elderly-ish walkers in Lancaster yesterday with mini golliwog dolls displayed on the back of both of their rucksacks.“

And their age is relevant exactly how?

And as some posters have said, they're creepy and weird! Do you look at a golliwog and smile? I don't, I would if it was a teddy bear or something perhaps but they look confronting and creepy and they're not even NICE

And as for whether racism went underground, I don't think it did. I'm not black but not white either and these kinds of experiences are sadly so common. I think Brexit, Trump and the political rise of the alt right/right wing again has made people feel more bold and able to express themselves openly.

Not everyone who voted for Brexit is a bigot or a racist but I've seen first hand the kind of people who wanted it saying the most skin crawling things

@BertrandRussell

I think it’s relevant insofar as, based on the limited data available on attitudes towards golliwogs, older people are much more likely to deem them acceptable.

Annoyingly I’m struggling to find the raw data on YouGov right now but plenty of articles about the results.

inews.co.uk/news/i-amazed-learn-half-brits-think-golliwogs-arent-racist/

To quote from that:

‘The older you are, the less likely you are to have a problem with golliwogs. Some 70% of over 65s think it’s acceptable to sell or display one and 80% of them are convinced that doing so isn’t racist. The figures for 18- to 24-year-olds are just 24% and 34% respectively’

I wasn’t the PP you were responding to btw, just for clarity.

I'm not sure why some people can't seem to believe that Golliwogs are still around. They most certainly are and seem to have been making a come back in recent years.
My mum has one which I'm thoroughly mortified by so i don't exactly go advertising the fact to my friends and colleagues. But just because you haven't seen one or heard someone talking about them irl doesn't mean they don't exist.

As previous posters have said, people also seem to be getting a lot bolder in expressing their racist views (many more openly racist posts popping up on my Facebook newsfeed). It feels like we'removing backwards not forwards

I'm old and I think they are fucking shit and nasty.

Can all of the racist gw-excusers on this post do us all a favour and never name change, please!

Good to know who considers nostalgia and faux-innocence/old timely bullshit to be more important than deeply offending and upsetting people. I nearly said “a whole race of people”, but then realised that it’s not just one race (black people) who are disgusted by them. Racism is rearing it’s extremely ugly head, buoyed up by the current political climate and fascist media outlets. We must not allow it to continue at its current growth rate. It is every single person’s moral and social duty to stamp it out as best they can - so report, make complaints, raise your voices. Black/white, whatever, casual racism is an insidious cancer that cannot be defended. Ever. Ever. Really ever. I don’t mean maybe sometimes.... I mean absolutely never. Please don’t defend the indefensible!

All of y’all who keep their precious ‘gollies’ you know, at home, so as to not cause offence.... How awfully nice of you! People with gw keyrings, that they hope nobody will see (wtf!!!) why is a stuffed doll, or a fucking keyring so important to you that you’d make someone feel distress, and bring some of the worst elements of our history into the present. Sling them all in the bin where they belong!! I don’t care if they are the only thing you’ve got left of your granny or your great auntie whoever. They have no place in society!

If you wouldn’t have a doll of a slave in shackles, or a key ring depicting someone being whipped and raped, or Jews going to the gas chamber, or a swastika - then chuck your dear gw out. That’s what they represent, for anyone too dense to understand that the history of slavery and the treatment of black people are symbolised by these dolls. They are a representation and symbol of the way black people have been treated and depicted for centuries. Just because they’re not a detailed photograph of the way black people were treated at the time in which they were popular, it doesn’t mean that they don’t conjure up the same image. If your argument is that it’s all ancient history, why not leave it there??? The confederate flag is just a piece of fabric... you know what, I don’t know why I’m bothering trying to shake racists into enlightenment. As you were.

Can all of the racist gw-excusers on this post do us all a favour and never name change, please!

It's very telling that the excusers want to say what they think, but are too ashamed to admit who they are.

Who else is curious about how the OP got on in work this morning? 👀👀👀👀

I'm saddened and angry at some responses here, glad to see MN admins have stepped up a few times.

I just wanted to add a voice of support towards OP. Well done for reporting, I'm glad your manager has also seen how wrong it is to display that.

To the tw**s in the thread: yes, it's offensive, stop troll hunting, she's a genuine poster, she doesn't need to explain herself of her feelings or her background.

OP has all the right reasons to be angry, yet she's posted very sensibly. PoC / BAME people shouldn't have to bear the weight of fighting against racism and white privilege all the time. It's obviously racist and it's for everyone to step up against this kind of displays.

OP, I hope everything gets sorted. It's appalling to see the reactions of some posters, but please don't leave. There are also plenty of people here who have your back and understand your frustration.

How are you OP? Is the offending article still there? I really bloody hope not

Brilliant post, theWaronPeace. Just a shame it's still necessary to say it.

Excellent post theWarOnPeace

To the tws in the thread: yes, it's offensive, stop troll hunting, she's a genuine poster, she doesn't need to explain herself of her feelings or her background.

Is anyone really too twee to spell out ‘twats’?

She put something on her desk.
You and your manager (and some staff) found it offensive.
If it were not deliberate, She should have apologised and removed it when you raised it
It would have been over.
Instead she left it there, secured with blue tack.
Any offence caused is now deliberate.
HR and your manager should issue her a warning and have the item removed immediately.
A formal apology should be made.
Mandatory training should be instigated.

I'm shocked at the vitriol on this thread.

I was born in the late 70's so was a child throughout the 80's when this caused outrage ( and rightly so ) and obviously as a child I didn't know why the gollies were removed from the jars. I always remember them on marmalade jars for some reason.

My dad actually explained it to me in a way that a 7/8 year old would understand and I was horrified. Even as a little girl I knew it was very wrong and as a mum to an almost 8 year old dd myself now I would have no hesitation in explaining anything to her that is controversial/racist/downright nasty etc.

She goes to a school with very few black children but is aware of racism as we talk about lots of things at home which I think are important and not taboo subjects or
off limits as she is a child. Age appropriate of course.

I'm saddened that op has been forced to defend herself numerous times on this thread. Says a lot about people when an op says she is black and is then doubted.
Would they doubt if a poster mentioned they are white? Double fucking standards.