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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

Golliwogs...

544 replies

GoodNewsTwo · 03/09/2018 17:44

A colleague of mine today put a small golliwog figurine on her desk. Said she's always liked them and that she doesn't see an issue. I explained that some people (myself included) find them offensive and dated, and think they are too controversial for a workplace setting. As a black woman, I don't really like to sit and look at it all day. I'm sure many people wouldn't regardless of their ethnicity/race. AIBU to ask her again to remove it? I don't want to be 'that girl' who has an issue with race (I don't) - on this occasion, I just feel extremely uncomfortable.

wwyd?

OP posts:
JamieVardysHavingAParty · 04/09/2018 17:30

I think golliwogs are offensive in themselves, but just for a second, let's consider your argument

The words see, Tuesday, next and you aren't offensive in themselves, but you might find it's a disciplinary offence to display an ornate sign on your desk bearing the message see you next Tuesday. It's about context.

You might also find that pointedly saying See you next Tuesday at the end of a work-related disagreement might land you in hot water, too, because again, everyone present would know what you were saying.

Hertha · 04/09/2018 17:33

A golliwog is more obviously offensive than a swastika or an Isis flag. The latter two are symbols. Without knowledge of their context, they are not offensive.

We can debate whether knowledge of the historical, offensive characatures of black people is needed to see a golliwog as offensive, but it’s offensiveness is definitely more apparent on the face of the object than for simple symbols.

Obviously all three have no place in a workplace and are clearly offensive.

GladAllOver · 04/09/2018 17:41

Obviously all three have no place in a workplace and are clearly offensive.

Of course.
A swastika is offensive to Jews
A golliwog is offensive to black people.

There is nothing to choose between them, and I would question the morality of anyone who would defend either symbol.

Feefeetrixabelle · 04/09/2018 17:51

Thing is swastikas have a massively different background pre ww2. They have a massive heritage I think possibly from Indian culture but prepared to be corrected on that. So there is this whole background predominantly based on very peaceful principles that swastikas relate to. But you don’t see them barely anywhere today (other than architecture which is harder to get rid of) and you don’t see them paraded everywhere because once they were a peaceful symbol. No you don’t because that’s not reasonable. It would cause offence. People died were enslaved and were abused with that flag held as a symbol. It would be outrageous is a company strayed using a swastika.

And exactly the same applies to gollywogs. It’s not ok to display them. Black people were and clearly still are routinely humiliated and bullied. They died. They were enslaved and they were abused. And the golliwog has had its background corrupted and now it’s an offensive symbol.

JacquesHammer · 04/09/2018 17:52

But if the item isn't offensive in and of itself ( as opposed to a swastika or ISIS flag) then there's not a lot that can be done

Except a gollywog is offensive in and of itself and therefore there are things that can be done.

Except you knew that. The wide eyed “oh but they’re not offensive” type of faux naïveté is beyond tiresome.

GladAllOver · 04/09/2018 18:01

This thread has been quite an eye-opener for me. I hadn't realised that people on MN could be so accepting of racist symbols and behaviour.

Sadly we still have a long way to go.

Fredkites · 04/09/2018 18:04

Ugh, the thread has got worse. Hope you're ok OP and the message to HR was safely sent. I wish i was a colleague of yours so I could stand with you on this one.

rainingcatsanddog · 04/09/2018 18:06

You can't get an official warning for it, unless management could prove it was intended to cause offence.

The people who work in the office represent the business during office hours. No company wants to be associated with a racist artifact like this in 2018. They are deeply offensive to employees and visitors and displayed on an office desk, show the company in a bad light.

gamerwidow · 04/09/2018 18:08

Sadly we still have a long way to go.
It’s sickening I thought we’d come so far as a society but now I’m starting to think that racism never went away it’s just that all the racists kept their views secret but now they feel safe to go public again.

Feefeetrixabelle · 04/09/2018 18:17

One of the posters on here was banned and rejoined and sent me some pretty eye opening messages. My views on golliwogs being racist are the reason why Britain is on its arse and I’m also a snowflake apparently. It’s really opened my eyes. But made me more determined to educate racism out of the next generation and keep trying til it’s a shameful past not a disgraceful present.

UsedtobeFeckless · 04/09/2018 18:19

I think you're right ... lt never went away, just underground.

ilovesooty · 04/09/2018 18:27

Feefee that's appalling. I hope MNHQ banned that poster again.

BertrandRussell · 04/09/2018 18:27

“Of course.
A swastika is offensive to Jews
A golliwog is offensive to black people.”

Actually, I am neitherJewish nor black and they offend me.

Hertha · 04/09/2018 18:28

Did it ever even go underground? I’ve always been aware of racism, even as a white person. At most I think it’s become somewhat more overt in mainstream politics.

Sparklesocks · 04/09/2018 18:30

I can’t believe ‘golliwogs are fine’ is the hill some people insist they die on. Pathetic.

Shockers · 04/09/2018 18:31

Oddly enough, I saw two elderly-ish walkers in Lancaster yesterday with mini golliwog dolls displayed on the back of both of their rucksacks.

I wondered there might be some horrible ‘display your golliwog’ type campaign going on at the moment.

HeronLanyon · 04/09/2018 18:42

I think racists feel more emboldened now than I have seen for a long time. Last 12 months I have seen worst racist attack in London I’ve ever seen in 50 years living here. Saw worst have ever seen anywhere in south Italy. My aged ma just 3 days ago doing a memories thing for family described seeing the kkk put money on the altar of her church in the 30s USA and she said ‘given what’s still happening there now I am so ashamed and frightened’ or words to that effect. We all need to stay strong and call out racism wherever experienced. Really sickened by some posts on this thread. And heartened by more.

derxa · 04/09/2018 18:49

Oddly enough, I saw two elderly-ish walkers in Lancaster yesterday with mini golliwog dolls displayed on the back of both of their rucksacks.
Oh FFS

When I go back to my rural enclave I'm going to search the charity shops and such like and see if I can find a golliwog. I bet I'll find none. Golliwogs are racist and unacceptable.

SenecaFalls · 04/09/2018 18:49

Actually, I am neitherJewish nor black and they offend me.

Same with me.

Unfinishedkitchen · 04/09/2018 18:51

@GoodNewsTwo. I apologise for disbelieving you especially as I have experienced racism as a mixed raced woman.

Unfortunately there have been so many troll threads on this subject that I just read the title and made up my mind that you were shit stirring so reported you and HQ told me you were genuine.

I’m so sorry you’re having to go through this. I won’t read through 19 pages so apologies if I repeat something that’s already been suggested but I suggest you take it up with your line manager and HR. There is no way that she doesn’t know that what she’s doing is offensive (if this is the UK). Don’t take it up with her so she can try and debate with you or act innocent and naive.

Feefeetrixabelle · 04/09/2018 19:10

@ilovesooty yeah. They came back twice but mumsnet were right on it. I was more worried she would start on the OP tbh. Last thing she needs is racist dm’s

Shockers · 04/09/2018 19:12

The dolls were identical derxa; I’d be surprised if they weren’t new.

I’d have been tempted to ask what it was about, had I not been in my car, in standstill traffic, as I thought it was very odd in these enlightened times.

MeyMary · 04/09/2018 19:16

but if the item isn't offensive in and of itself ( as opposed to a swastika or ISIS flag) then there's not a lot that can be done.

How is the item not offensive?

I'm not Jewish or black. But I strongly believe that none of these items should be found in anyone's workplace! (Unless they work in a museum, the item is part of a remembrance display etc...)

UghNoWay · 04/09/2018 19:17

OP
I've sent them an email, and spoken to my manager. My manager is equally as shocked. He's also sad I didn't raise it initially. He's raising a complaint also independently from mine as he appears to have had dealings with my colleague previously that I'm not aware of

Has anyone actually got the wretched thing removed yet? Id have expected it to be gone within moments of complaining about it.

It be interesting if anyone who has experience of HR or law has an opinion on whether a company could potentially sack the woman over this or impose some sort of disciplinary procedure? Also might it actually be a criminal offence? The woman was told it was offensive by the OP but continued to display the ornament. Is that racial harassment. I’m sure there must be some posters who are knowledgable about this.

Original poster
GoodNewsTwo · 04/09/2018 19:20

@Unfinishedkitchen you didn't just disbelieve. You chose to ignore my comments which are quite obviously genuine, and joined in with a load of other people on here who were ganging up on someone who needed help. You also chose to leave a pretty horrid comment on here instead of just reporting the post quietly. You posted 3 hours after my initial post and in my opinion had more than enough evidence to determine that I am genuine. You've now been told by hq that I am genuine and have decided to apologise, which I accept, but still don't condone your comment. The problem with true colours is that once someone has seen them, anything that follows, including apologies, don't mean a huge deal. I thank you for apologising anyway and hope you never have to experience anything like I have.

OP posts: