To think that some married women on here think they are better than unmarried women?

[malificent7]

After reading the thread about legal rights, marriage and birth certificates I was struck by the patronising way in which some married women spoke to those who are cohabiting or not married.
True married women have better rights but it was the way in which the relationships of unmarried women were dismissed as lesser and these women were being sneered at.

Someone told a woman who had been cohabiting that her relationship meant nothing and that if you are not married you are single.
REALLY? I am not married but I am not single. I don't even live with the guy but why is my relationship seen as less valid? Some married people hate each other and don't have the guts to leave. Some of the best love affairs involve people who live miles apart.
I don't like the fact that I have to put single on a form . Why can I not be in a relationship?

Ok, If you are married you have some legal rights and security that the unmarried have but shouldn't we question this? Why should we make vows especially if you don't believe in the laws of marriage? Also, it was originally a religious ceremony..I don't believe in God and I am not a commodity to be given away by my dad to another male.

Does it lead to stability? My dp is divorced. The marriage vows didn't stop things from falling apart.

Marriage can be a great thing but the tone in the last thread was old fashioned and practically berated women for not managing to get a man to marry them. Surely there has to be other options if you don't believe in marriage ? It is a patriarchal tradition after all to do with male prperty rights. Also, many men want pre nuptuals as they are now wise to gold digging wives.

I think you can have some marriages which have less love than some cohabiting relationships. Why is one type of relationship more valid? I find it all very old fashioned.

Judging by the number of men who don't leave their wives a dime on divorce, I am not convinced by the stability argument.

Marriage is a legal contract with obligations on both sides pragmatically think of it as an insurance policy you’ll probably never need it but if something goes wrong you’ll be glad you have it.

Also the religious part of the marriage ceremony is entirely optional it’s the civil part which is the legal bit. You can get married in your lunch hour at the registrars with your other half and 2 witnesses present cost approximately £100

Was that to me chickenkatsu? I'm not fond of over-simplifying this, man or woman.

*Also what extra protection being married would give my teenage children

A sense of security? A sense of knowing their parents are married*

So a feeling. My dc feel very secure. They have parents who have stayed together longer than their married friends.

But the family unit is undeniably helpful in socialising children. Give and take, respect, manners, boundaries, lack of tolerance for inappropriate behaviour... Two adults who are there is an infinitely better model than one adult

But that is exactly what we have . We just are not married.

Again what is the inappropriate behaviour that you think comes with people who live together.

i still believe that if you want the protections offered by marriage - get fucking married
its not and shouldnt come in by stealth (as in after X years living together)
if your DP wont marry, then think before becoming a SAHP and giving up your career, because why wont they marry? dont they think the relationship will last? then dont have DC

do what you want, i really don't care or think i am superior ( i am the high earner in my marriage with a SAHP) just dont whinge when you find yourself on your own with nothing as so often happens - my relationship has no bearing on yours and vice versa

Round of applause.

@MaisyPops thank you (am hoping this wasn't sarcasm, as i cant spot it after a few glasses of wine!)

I am not posting with religious considerations in mind. I'm posting with practical considerations

Given the legal framework in the UK, it's simply not sensible for people not to get married (unless they are both financially independent).

LeroyJenkins
No sarcasm at all.
Want to get married? Get married.
Don't want to get married? Don't.
Do what you like for whatever reason you like.

Choose to stick in a relationship, not get married, get into a vulnerable position and keep having children? Don't complain later you should have 50% of the equity in the house that doesn't legally belong to you and don't push for the law to be changed forcing the law ibto other people's relationships

HRTFT. the issue I have is the assumption that marriage always offers protection. Marriage has shafted me. I put 90k into the matrimonial home (he put nothing) which he has an equal right to (we are divorcing) whereas if we weren't married he would have no claim to it. It's not always the case that it's the man with the money.

But it raises awareness to remind our DC to make sure they protect themselves in long term relationships

the issue I have is the assumption that marriage always offers protection.
It does to people who sacrifice their financial security to prop up their partners career, stay at home with the kids etc.

It's two people freely entering into a legal agreement concerning their assets.

Marriage has shafted me. I put 90k into the matrimonial home (he put nothing) which he has an equal right to (we are divorcing) whereas if we weren't married he would have no claim to it. It's not always the case that it's the man with the money.
Crap situation for you but you signed up to marriage and all the legal stuff that goes with it knowing yours and your then partners situation. You chose to put in large amounts of money into a home whilst your husband put nothing.

The fact that in a split it was divided is part of having freely entered that legal contract.

It all comes down to choices and people accepting choices have consequences.

I earn more than DH and paid more initial capital to our house. The house goes 50/50 if we split. We chose to marry and all that it entails. If I wanted to ringfence and protect my assets then we could have bought as joint tennants, protected my investment and cohabited.

Posters on this thread are so vitriolic against mums who couldn’t manage to coerce their dps down the aisle.

If a couple has dp1 who doesn’t want to marry and dp2 who does, dp1 wins every time.

We don’t have forced narrative in the U.K. thankfully.

So unless people are saying no sex before marriage then there will be babies born to unmarried couples.

If a woman doesn’t earn enough to cover childcare and dp refuses to share the cost she’s pretty stuck.

Yes she can leave but that increases the likelihood of her dc growing up in poverty.

It’s not much of a choice is it?

I agree with @maisypops that marriage is usually best, given that women always give birth and usually earn less and usually take on more of the responsibility. If this weren't the case then we could all shrug over women who have children with a man they're not married to and then stay at home to look after them!

The dots need to be joined up though. There are a number of pressures on women. One of them is to get married. Another is to have children before it's too late. A lot of the time when your self-esteem isn't what it could be it's very hard to say what maisy said there, the bit that is pure common sense , ie, not sacrificing career, earnings, independence, savings and pension for parenthood while a father advances his career unimpeded by parenthood without protection. It is hard to say that when you feel more scared of losing the relationship than you do about a far off future that you put out of your mind.

I have mixed feelings about the rights that unmarried fathers have been given. Why would they marry?

ps and as a woman with children a job a house and a pension I wouldn't get married now but that is different to a man refusing to as no man that I'd live with is ever going to have children and sacrifice his career to run my home and look after our children!!!

I'm single and I have been for a long time. To be honest I look down on married women a little bit. I think the majority are a bit thick and gullible and only ever do what society expects them to do without ever thinking for themselves. I find very conventional people very boring.

I don't think marriage gives women any protection. If I had married my ex-partner I would have lost my house to him. Thank God I wasn't that stupid.

Yes lots of married women do look down on unmarried women. It's because for a lot of women being able to snare a man is the ultimate prize. They've managed to beat off all the competition and get a man to choose them...it means many consider themselves better because they've won the top prize...a husband.

There's a lack of clarity of thinking here

Marriage is not always best. If you are earning well and have assets then a partner who doesn't earn well or doesn't have assets is a potential risk. Marry them and you end up paying for them and they might well be pretty feckless.

It's because for a lot of women being able to snare a man is the ultimate prize. They've managed to beat off all the competition and get a man to choose them...it means many consider themselves better because they've won the top prize...a husband.

Anais Nin once said that we don't see things as they are, we see them as we are. And unless you move in another species of woman to the one I'm generally familiar with, I think you are most definitely seeing things as you are.

This discussion always throws up a bit of snark in either direction, but most posters, and most people, make the decision to marry or not marry based on their personal circumstances. I've already been accused of being resentful, smug, akin to a Ku Klux Klanner and other assorted bits of batshittery in the alternative thread that got started shortly before this one, because I'm married. I don't understand why posters like you can't believe that I didn't actually make a life changing commitment because of you.

Though I do like the assumption that I "beat off all the competition". Apparently married women are all total sexpots...who knew!

Can you believe that I, and most married women, got married because we loved our partners and wanted to legalise our relationship? Can you possibly accept that it really was about us and absolutely fuck all to do with you or anyone else?

Oh it's totally subconscious imo. I don't believe any married woman actively thinks 'yes, I won, I got a man to marry me because I'm so great'. It's subtle. Society placed a high value on attractiveness, particularly sexual attractiveness. Finding a mate whos committed to you for life is the ultimate validation of your attractiveness.

*places

I don't think it's subconscious, I think its utter horseshit and actually rather misogynistic.

Though I love the idea that my husband pledged his life assets and fidelity to me because I'm clearly the greatest hottie out of the harem of women pursuing him. You can keep pushing that one if you like.

Any woman can get married if she marries beneath her.

I know what you mean namechanger22, I used to feel a bit of shame for being single, unchosen but now I've come full circle and I feel proud of my independence and the fact that I face the world with the confidence that I bring myself, and not half of the confidence of a UNIT which is stronger than the sum of its parts. I have to do that because I'm single of course but I feel braver and more aware than if I were coasting in a very average marriage socialising two by two, being cringingly normal. Not sure I could be that person now. Married, conventional, one half of something. It is hard to explain but I'd feel almost embarrassed if I met somebody and was telling people ''I've met somebody''. Like I"d changed sides and become conventional.

I agree with you @formberbabe, and the sad thing is that a woman can think her way out of needing that validation but if she gets married and never needs to think about it again.......... then I guess that doesn't happen.

Do you people seriously think that all married women are basking every day in the glow of their believed sexiness and unshakeable validation?

Have you ever looked at the Relationships board?

Why is it so offensive to you that a man and a woman would marry because they're in love and want to legalise it?

I hate to say it, but you sound as if you don't have any experience of love. Not because you're not married but because, well...you're talking shit!

Or why not just change the law so that marriage is not necessary?

This won't work at all. Who decides how long you have to be cohabiting for? It could be 5 years but what about those who've cohabited for 4 years 11 months? Or does it become legal once a child is born? But what about the childless who have cohabited for 30 years? You have to choose to enter into this kind of contract knowing what it entails you have to literally sign on the dotted line to say yes I will give this person half (or more) of my stuff

I was an unmarried sahm for nearly 10 years we were in a stable committed relationship which didn't change one bit the day after we got married, except for the fact that I would be secure to look after the dc if we split.

But only secure to a certain extent, I may get spousal maintenance for a short while a while but I'd be expected to get a job to support myself. I'd get a percentage of the house but if there's not enough equity to buy outright then I'll use the equity for a deposit and would have to get a mortgage and pay it from the job I'd have to get.

And that would be fine, but at least I'd get something to help me on my way if I was unmarried I'd have nothing.

No ones questioning the commitment of unmarried couples, there are many married couples that have zero commitment to each other but at least they are protected legally.

If you're happy with not having these rights then don't get married no one cares as it doesn't affect anyone else but that's the law and saying you lived like married people won't matter one bit in the event of a split.

Sarahandduck18 so all women who have babies without being married had accidental pregnancies?

Many make the choice. They also make the choice when they express to their Dp that they want to get married and the Dp doesn't want to give them something they really want and they carry on a relationship anyway.

I love all this 'married women think they are more attractive' and 'I look down on people who are married and find convential people boring'

Its all so ridiculous. If I marry Dp, I will do because it's what I want. Not because I think he is a prize or him wanting to marry, makes me a prize.

Personally I find people who say things like 'I find conventional people boring' are usually the type of people that are so stuck in their ways that everyone else finds them boring and tedious.

As a previous married I thinking you want to get married, do it. If you don't, don't. Look at your own circumstances, educate yourself and then decide.

Don't settle for not getting married, if that's not what you want. Don't get married if that's not what you want. Be strong enough to go for what you want and walk away if it's not.

If getting married means you will lose out on assets, really think about it. Do you want to share your assets with that person. Do you want to give them some financial protection. Do they need it? Are you making plans where they need it?

I have been married, a single parent and now have a partner who has his own house. If I decided that living together is very important to me and dp told me it was never going to happen it would be my choice to end the relationship. People need to stop sleep walking into LTR that don't give them what they want. Many unmarried women do it. Many married women do it. Many men do it.

And sneery people should stop sneering. It says far more about you, than it does about anyone else.

Ha I think I envy single women. Unless your DH is pretty forward thinking being married means a grumpy old git to look after in old age (this might change and men become more hands on) , he is another chore when you are older and want to take things easy. They might look after you if you become poorly but I'm not holding my breath on that one.