To give zero ground to DMiL on this one issue?

[Concerned18]

NC as I regularly contribute to other threads on MN. Don't want this to be outing, but am very conscious of drip-feeding, so will do my best to give all the relevant information. I'm also very aware that this will turn into an essay, so apologies in advance.

DH has been no contact with his sister (my SiL) for around 18 months.

SiL has had alcohol related issues for a number of years.

She's been horrendously verbally abusive to all of us. She has made some horrendous and provably untrue allegations about her eldest brother (DBiL) which nearly cost him his job. She has had countless run-ins with the police. She has a criminal record for drugs offences, and countless other fines and warnings for anti-social behaviour. She has been known to turn up at DMiL's, DBiL's, or our previous property at all hours of the morning, hurling abuse through the letterbox until someone l calls the police.

She has previously been to rehab, and left after the first session on the first day. She has gone to therapy, to a psychologist, to AA... you name it, she has gone to it. But it hasn't made much difference. Recently things have been quiet with SiL, but that is only as she's recently lost her job and doesn't have the money to pay for her alcohol.

Anyway... the only person to have stood by her is her mother (my DMiL). She has been through the ringer with her, but has always done her best to support her. Sometimes this has meant she has enabled her behaviour, but she does her best.

Recently, DH and I moved into our first property together (previously in rental due to saving for good deposit). DH and I made it clear to DMiL that we were not happy with SiL knowing where we live, as we wanted a fresh start away from the drama. This is particularly important for DH, who has dealt with this for most of his life and it has severely affected his MH - he has anxiety, panic attacks, etc. - but is also important for me, as I've had to deal with a fair bit of stress caused by SiL over the years. There's just too much water under the bridge now, and SiL does not own or take any responsibility for her behaviour or the pain she has caused.

However, DMiL thinks we are being unfair. She has said that SiL is "better" and that being involved with decorating her house would be cathartic and "give her something to focus on" following her loss of employment. She has already gone against our express wishes by telling SiL about the house, but says she has not told her where it is. DMiL, who I have an absolutely amazing relationship with, has asked me to try and convince DH that it would be for the best to allow SiL back into his life. I refused, on the basis that it's his decision and his alone, and I would support him in whatever he needs / wants to do. It has caused a bit of a tiff, with DMiL unhappy and worried that by telling SiL about our wishes, she'll tip her over the edge again.

AIBU for not giving any ground here?

Whilst I don't think SiL being around will bring any good, I would never stop DH from having a relationship with her if that's what he wants.

If anyone has managed to get through the end of my version of War & Peace(!) and thinks they could put my mind at ease, I'm very appreciative in advance ❤️

YANBU. Your SIL’s action have consequences.

I can’t quite believe your MIL wants to use your new home as occupational therapy for her daughter....

You are entirely right and to be honest if your MIL can't see that I'd be going low contact with her.

Your loyalty is to your DH, and you naturally wish to safeguard his mental health. If he doesn’t want his DSis to know his new address, then he should make this clear to his DM and she needs to respect that, regardless of what sil’s reaction might be.
If that causes problems between Mil and Sil, that’s up to them to sort out without involving you.
It’s unfair of Mil to try guilt tripping you and DH to make life easier for her with Sil.

Your Mil is quite frankly mad

It’s your DH’s decision, support him thro it.

If your MIL carries on I’d be telling her very little too from now on as she can’t be trusted.

Why on earth would decorating your house mean anything to your SIL? Unless she’s a decorated or home interior designer or something.

His mum should respect his wishes. He doesn't want anything to do with his sister. She shouldn't be trying to push this, and she certainly shouldn't be thinking that your new home will be cathartic for the daughter. If this is what she really thinks, well the daughter can go and decorate either her own home or her mums home.

I think you are right. You aren't therapy or a distraction for SIL. It's your DH's decision. Has Mil maybe reached end of her tether so trying to shift her previous support and/or enabling role to DH? Does she know its impacted his MH?

You are absolutely right -Hold your ground on this one.

Yanbu. Your MIL thinks she is helping your SIL, but it is so easy for helping to slide into enabling. She doesn't seem to be thinking of her son at all.

It is not your MIL place to tell ANYBODY the whereabouts of your new house, never mind somebody who may cause trouble. she needs to acknowledge her son and your feelings on this.

Stand your ground!
She hasn't changed by this age, it's not going to happen.
There's nothing wrong with protecting your (husband's) heart.
Lot's of luck to you ☺️

It’s really sad and I understand your mother in law wants to be supportive and believe your sister in law has changed but I’d not let a dysfunctional alcoholic into my life. Hold firm.

Well if your mil didn't want sil to know the truth she should have kept her trap shut about you moving in the first place! Stand firm, tell her it's not just your dh's decision but your home too and you do not want her to rock up shouting through the letter box.
Yanbu at all

No, no, no.
I feel very sorry for SIL and MIL. But SIL needs proper professional help. This may take years.
Meanwhile you just can't take the risk.
Alcoholics are seriously ill people and can do huge amounts of damage.

MIL is not helping her. She is enabling her.

YANBU.

You need to be polite but firm with your MIL and point out to her that if she insists on telling SIL about your house then you will no longer tell MIL anything. No ifs, no buts, end of.

I feel for your MIL, because my mum was similar with my brother. One year I was going out with friends on NYE and she guilt-tripped me into taking him out with us. There was going to be a (legal!) shut-in after 1am with all of us bringing food and stuff to continue the party - it was a pub friends and I went to a lot, full of great people, blah - and it was accepted by mum and brother that he would go home at 1am, because he wasn't on the "guest list" as it were. He was skint, I bought him drinks, which was obviously foolish, but then I wasn't exactly emotionally mature at the time, we all had the midnight hurrah and then a while later it was time for him to go. But he didn't want to. Long story short he started beating me up in the pub. He was dragged out, brought back to my mum's. My mother's reaction was what had I done to upset him and why couldn't I have just let him stay ... blah.

The point is that my mum enabled my brother and couldn't seem to stop until one day she just did. We all loved him, but it was really, really hard to like him. The fact is that the more you enable someone the less likely they are to get better. It's hard for your MIL, but trying to put this on you and your DH is wrong, just as it was wrong for my mother to try to make me a part of "fixing" my brother.

She will blame you when your SIL falls off the wagon again, but having her in your house doing a bad job of decorating and pretending everything is fine, stressing your DH out as he wonders when she's going to turn up drunk, get drunk in your new home , and so on.

YANBU, your MIL is. It's hard because you have a good relationship with her, but I think you need to tell her that while you understand her need to be there for her daughter no matter what, it's not the same for the rest of you and you cannot and will not try to convince your husband to change his mind and that she should understand and accept that. I think that at some point the whole family might need to have a mum intervention, to help her understand that she cannot help SIl, by enabling her, but that's a whole other story.

Sorry this is so long-winded. YANBU and I hope you can get your MIL to understand yours and your husband's position on this. Oh and I hope you have much happiness in your lovely new home.

Your SILs behaviour sounds extremely similar to my Mothers! Are we related !

Your MIL needs to understand that not respecting your wishes will have consequences for you, if your SIL decides to cause trouble at your new address. If it were me, I would consider telling MIL that if she goes against your DHs wishes you would be considering if she if the type of person you want in your lives (but I can be a massive b*tch).

My sister has moved since going NC with my M and no one in our family would consider revealing her location (before we all eventually went NC also), as we know this is inviting a lot of unnecessary trouble to her door step, plus this is her choice.

Thank you all ❤️

Just to build on a few things some of you have asked -

@fuzzywuzzy - I think DMiL has some sort of notion that by being involved in the decorating and general kerfuffle that goes with buying a house, SiL will get a metaphorical boot up the backside by seeing what she could have if she got her life back on track. I suspect there's also an element of trying to keep her out of trouble, because she has lost her job and so has nothing to do but sit at home all day and probably drink.

@CSIblonde - I think there's an element of that, yes. In previous years, DMiL relied on DH to help her "mop up" SiL's mess. She would have called him if SiL turned up at her home, for example. DH was very much her "go to" if it went tits up, more so than DBiL. Perhaps now she feels that, by moving into a home and looking to start our own family, she won't be able to rely on him to provide the backing she once got when dealing with her? I'm not really too sure 

A lot of you have asked re: DH's MH, and whether DMiL has any idea the effect this has had on her son. I would say that she realises, but has dug herself a hole so deep with the support / enabling of SiL that she can't stop it now. DMiL and I have only had actual cross words and raised voices on the issue once, and that was when I reminded her that it's one thing to support her children, but she needs to support all of them. I was reminded that, as I don't have children and am not a mother, I wouldn't be able to understand 🤷🏻‍♀️

Thank you to @Ravenesque for sharing your experience ❤️

The only thing that will help SIL is detox. IME the only way to get this is to pay lots of money.
Many alcoholics fail numerous times.
The only way to dry out is if you are really motivated.

The only thing that will help SIL is detox. IME the only way to get this is to pay lots of money.

Does the NHS not cover inpatient detox?

OP, I think it's perfectly reasonable for you to not bend to MIL on this one. SIL is not going to be helped by decorating your house. She needs to focus on getting treatment for her addiction. Anything else is just kicking the can down the road.

You have chosen to go NC with toxic SIL, if MIL goes against your wishes and gives her your address I would be going NC with MIL too (or threatening too at least)

The NHS is falling apart rapidly.
I doubt there is any funding for detox.

No no no! You and your DH are not the answer to your Sil's problems, and having the worry of wondering if and when she will turn up and what she's likely to do will cause you both a lot of stress. Does your MIL know your new address? If not I would not tell her as she sounds deluded about her daughter and it's highly likely she will tell her at some point. If MIL does know your new address you need to reiterate very firmly about not divulging it to Sil. This is a heart-breaking situation for your MIL, but spreading the misery doesn't help anyone.

I had the identical issue with my DM and my brother, except his issues lay with hard drugs. He was incredibly intimidating and both my mum and I really struggled to stand up to him at all as he just pushed and pushed. He had broken in to my mum’s house more than once.
Having moved closer to a city and on public transport routes as a newly single parent, I made it clear I didn’t want him knowing my address, he had already announced he would move in with me and was shocked the core that I didn’t have a spare bedroom 😂 - privileged background that we had both had.
Anyway, I learned after the event that my mum took it upon herself to use her key while I was away to drive him to my house to show him around as “he just wanted to see where you live”. She never had a key to any house of mine again, to which she makes occasional PA reference but she knows why.
He didn’t break in but I never felt safe in that house and I moved 15 months after buying it.
He broke into Mum’s house a few more times and was very threatening, and was unfortunately Sectioned from there on one occasion and held in a top security psych facility due to being assessed as a high risk to others. I was present having got a desperate call at work from Mum, we were sheltering behind my car with a mental health outreach social worker and a psychiatrist as my brother came in and out of the house throwing heavy objects at us, ringing the bell and shouting threats. The psychiatrist said it was time to call the police and I was shaking so much I couldn’t dial 999 on my Nokia so had to run to the village phone box. I was the only one with a mobile on me as we’d had to get out of the house and take cover.
The fact my mum went against my express wishes to take him to a house where I lived alone with a 10 year old and a severely disabled and ill 2 year old, blew my mind.
YANBU.
My brother died a few years ago from an overdose which is very sad, but unless they have been through it, people can’t understand the constant fear and dread of very aggressive and unpredictable family members. The guilt is also enormous.
💐