To not understand how this different from putting an anorexic model on the cover

[Spinderelle]

Cosmopolitan have a morbidly obese model on their cover this month. I am absolutely behind the idea of body positivity - after children my body is far from perfect and it’s nice to see companies like ASOS use larger women and not airbrush stretch marks etc.

But this model is dangerously obese and risking her health. How is that any different from having a dangerously thin model on the cover?

I will always say that people have a right to discuss things even if it's a sensitive subject.

Please don't go all pseudo-Voltaire on me, it reminds me of an ex. He was an idiot, since you ask.

There really is an enormous difference between asking people to rein in their nastiness-dressed-as-humour-or-concern when it's only going to do damage, and attempting to stifle freedom of speech. Seriously, you do not have to worry. I have as much power to stop you posting as Tess Holliday has to stop the weight loss industry. (None at all, is the point I'm making.)

If my rant read as if its only purpose was to try to SILENCE THIS NOBLE DISCUSSION, then I clearly need more practise. Someone start a thread about labouring women being forced to have audiences, that's a hot spot. I never give a shit about the parking ones.

Ayn brilliantly articulate post. I'm a "fattie off mumsnet"

I wish I wasn't. I'm on my way to not being though, which I am happy with.

My insecurities, emotions, shame etc manifest themselves in a physical way. For others, they manifest in cruelty, abusing others, addictions etc.

I felt worthless for so long (abusive marriages will do that to you). That coupled with two knee injuries, medication to manage my mental health, and yes, too much vino now and again have resulted in a massive disconnection from my body.

This is changing. I am lucky to still be alive after everything I've gone through. I can't believe I ever thought I wasn't good enough for others, for him.

I guess I'm trying to say that coping skills aren't guaranteed in any of us. Childhood, life situations etc can skew things horribly.

That isn't what you and several others said, Oftenhungry. The things you said about women who are obese were judgemental, cruel and insulting, all masquerading as concern for their health. It's all there to see, however much you try to backtrack now.

Since so many suggest health concerns are just an attempt to hide nastiness, maybe it's worth considering the medical profession, who it seems safe to assume really are focusing on this

This obviously won't apply to all, but how often do we hear that even doctors have fat shamed a patient for advising weight loss? Or that someone who's had their surgery denied or delayed is being victimised? Or that, despite even things like gym memberships being given out, "they won't do anything for me"?

Yes it's a complex subject, but that doesn't negate the points made about personal responsibility and it doesn't change the impression that some don't just want obesity to be mentioned only in certain terms ... they don't want it mentioned at all

I would be more supportive of the body positive movement if severe obesity was not on the increase in primary age children (I know it is in England and Wales). Children should not have their lives shortened and the quality of life compromised because being severely obese is seen as not having health complications.

Right, well now I'm pissed off.

Why is it, when a point of view has been thoroughly and strongly refuted, do so many people immediately resort to derailing the discussion with "Well I'm allowed to SAY it!/ I am entitled to my opinion!, as if that's actually the issue? As if anyone has attempted to get this thread removed, or get someone's posting rights revoked, or go round to someone's house with chloroform and a ball gag. (Don't tempt me.)

It's a dull, tiresome and lazy way of derailing the discussion, but it's alarming how often it works. Case in point, this thread right now.

Once again. I am not saying you cannot talk about obesity (and if I were, good luck to me in trying to enforce that. Seriously, what are you worried I'll do?). What I AM saying, among other things, is that if you really do want to help a fat person with their health, you could do well not to create the exact feelings in them that cause them to overeat. Think of it as self harm, if you like, since that is actually what it is. And don't treat them as if they're idiots who haven't got the memo.

A good doctor will have a respectful, practical and sympathetic approach towards it, which is more than I can say for many of the posters on here.

I actually find myself preferring the "hur hur cheeseburger benchpress" brigade, because at least they're not pretending that they actually give a shit, or attempting to derail the thread into something it's not, like a really crap Voltaire.

YABU. As pps have pointed out, the difference is that fat people are subject to discrimination, bullying, etc etc. Thin people are not subject to this for their size, so there is a huge difference! There is a multi million pound diet industry based around women’s desire for thinness.
There has been pressure for many years for women to achieve an unrealistically thin body so it’s refreshing to see something different.
However I hate all this fetishising women’s bodies, super thin or super fat, and all the comment about how a woman ‘should’ look. As to whether or not a person is healthy, well, you can’t tell that from a picture anyway! What about ill health we can’t see? And actually why should someone with health problems not be on a magazine cover? Many readers themselves will have health problems.

im the same size as her. Its lovely reading almost an entire thread about how gross, disgusting and ugly I am.

And you wonder why she's on the cover?

@OftenHangry I'll absolutely ask about that with my next appointment, I was diagnosed with an underactive thyroid but I read the side effects could make you gain weight so I had a huge anxiety attack about it and stopped taking the pills and never went for another thyroid check.

I barely leave the house I'm so anxious, I've been called names in the streets because of my weight and it's not like I'm obvious to the fact I'm fat those shitty comments just made it so I went out less and less. I don't leave the house on my own, I don't have friends I don't talk to people, I'm so terrified of others even growing up my own Nan would reprimand me for showing a bit of stomach because I wasn't slim and she'd remark on everyone being "lovely and slim". I've had my confidence destroyed since I was young for being fat - I was bullied out of school my class cheered when my Nan went into pick up my course work. None of it was done out of concern for my health and all it did was turn me into the fucking disabled wreck of a recluse I am now.

Lyinwitch your comments have left me crying but in a different way to the cruel ones disguised as concern have, we can tell the difference just because someones fat it doesn't make them stupid, we know when we're being ridiculed and when someone cares.

I know I'm fat, I know the effects on my health but a life time of bullying over my weight have left scars on my mental health and treating that has caused me to gain more but be too afraid to leave the house and make the changes to lose it. I don't eat a lot - honestly but I don't get out and exercise either because of the emotional scars left by people like those on this thread.

"Lighting someone else's candle doesn't make yours any less bright"

@LadyDeadpool don't stop taking the pills! Aside from you needing them to be healthy, you should lose weight whilst on them as they'll speed up your metabolism. It's only OVERactive thyroid meds that can make you gain weight, almost everyone loses weight on the meds for an UNDERactive thyroid.

Bit late now the horse has bolted.

I hate to hear how upset some people have been by some of the awful comments on here. It just shows why we need to see a greater variety of female beauty out there

If a 13 year old looks at cover of an anorexic model and thinks “it’s ok for me to be like that”
Or
a 13 year old looks at cover of an obese model and thinks “it’s ok for me to be like that” then both are equally damaging.
All this cover does is normalise/validate obesity which in the current climate is vey fucking dangerous if you ask me

And AynRand, your posts are bloody awesome.

Ladydeadpool there is support out there and you deserve to get it. Please reach out to your gp and take the first step to make life better for yourself. I have been on a similar journey and my life is so much better for it. You can do this - there would be a lot of support on here for you if you reach out in a separate thread too.

I think it's a valid discussion to be having. There have been a small number of absolutely vile posts which need deleting but otherwise it is a useful and important conversation to be having. Society has a massive problem with obesity. Obese individuals are worth just as much as everyone else and deserve respect. But we need to be discussing the wider implications of obesity to be able to make any changes. Lots of people have been able to do that respectfully here.

I don't think anyone whose body has been substantially moulded by mental health issues should be set up as an example. This for me isn't just about weight extremes but also excessive plastic surgery, people who try and become animals and anything else that fits that description. I think it is really exploitative and unfair for magazines to do this, they aren't doing for the benefit of the individuals involved.

Does anyone really think she, or any other plus size model in the tidal wave of skinny ones, has got that kind of power?

I agree 100% that obesity is enormously complicated and often is related to things like poverty and mental health issues. I think society needs to make massive changes to help anyone struggling. I don't believe weight loss is about will power even. Largely I don't think it's peoples' fault if they're big, in fact.

But yes I do think she has that kind of power. There are a lot of very unhappy people out there who are extremely tired of struggling to lose weight when their lives are very hard and there is food rammed with sugar absolutely everywhere. I used to be pretty big and if I'd seen Tess then I absolutely would have used her as an excuse to give up dieting and sat and stuffed my face. I was looking for any excuse. It would have done me more physical damage on the long run. I needed support to love myself enough to eat well, in fact.

These body positive celebrities are huge on Instagram and highly influential. Don't underestimate that. I was looking at 'GlitterandLazers' account on there a moment ago. Take five minutes to have a look at her. Her mother and sister died young from obesity related illnesses. She is extremely obese. Food companies etc are sponsoring her to the tune of thousands of dollars to eat their snacks on You Tube. She has 284k followers and tells them regularly to keep eating because obesity is fine.

I am making no commemts about her beauty or her worth because that isn't relevant - of course she has worth the same as anyone. But these people are doing damage. Tess has something like 1 million followers on IG.

This thread has made me cry, again. I’m the idiot who thought maybe sensible discussion might have won out.

But no.

It just shows me what’s in the minds of the people who stare at me on the street. I get that I’m disgusting and you wish I wasnt spoiling your view with my foul vomitous fatness.

But my son can see the look in your eyes and it’s not very nice. Or isn’t he worth as much as your children because his mother is fat?

By the way I know you won’t believe me, but the illness came first, and that’s why I can’t walk. Not the fat.

Not ‘get off your arse and walk love, the fat’ll soon come off’ or ‘OMG it’s disgusting that the NHS have to give people like her a free wheelchair when she’s got too fat to walk’ etc etc etc...

So before you say that loudly to your friend as you walk past me (or shout it from your car if you have no grace at all), or even a new doctor making idiotic assumptions when he really should know better... maybe could you be a little bit kind and give me the benefit of the doubt?

Oh no, I forgot, I’m fat, and fat people never get that, it’s fat first, at all times.

I know you won’t listen to me cos hey, who listens to fricking fat people, but... here’s a truuuuu fact:

If fat hatred, shaming and general nastiness actually worked, we wouldn’t have the rising obesity problem we do now, would we?!

But no, you’re all right, by default thinness, so I’m sure you’ll just step up the exclusion and nastiness.

Try the same thing, but harder. It’s got to work, right? Because fat people deserve to be shamed away, it feels so right, and there’s a nominal excuse to do it, soooo, yay...

Here you go: Glitter and Lazers

Welltgisisshit

People forget, the POINT of body positivity is learning to love the skin you're in, to accept yourself the way you are and love that body and all its imperfections.

Its documented that once you can get there, then losing weight actually gets easier.

But when society is so fucking fat phobic that they persist in telling fat people they're disgusting, gross, lazy, greedy, ugly, vile...etc, all you're doing is UNDOING all the hard work they've put in on loving themselves, you are making it harder for them to lose weight.

You don't motivate people by making them sad and unhappy to the point they loathe themselves.

Right now, all I want to do is say 'fuck it, everyone hates me, i'm a fat, stupid waste of space' and go eat.

Well done.
Thanks.

ITs bullying.

If its not ok for a child to pick on a peer over their weight/appearance, Why do so many of you think its ok to do it here?

Why do you think this thread would have any other effect than abusing someone in the street?

Does telling a person they're fat/ugly/gross/vile/disgusting ever make them feel good about themselves?