To wonder how many female Mumsnetters actually meet the definition of 'woman' according to BACP (the main professional body for counsellors and psychotherapists)

[PimmsnLemonade]

www.bacp.co.uk/media/2334/bacp-gender-sexual-relationship-diversity-gpacp001.pdf

2.6 Gender identity: woman
Definitions

Whether trans or cisgender, intersex or not, many people identify as women. However, what this means varies a great deal depending on their other intersecting attributes. It is important not to assume, for example, that being a woman necessarily involves being able to bear children, or having XX sex chromosomes, or breasts. Being a woman in a British cultural context often means adhering to social norms of femininity, such as being nurturing, caring, social, emotional, vulnerable, and concerned with appearance.

However, of course, not all women adhere to all these things. For example some neurodiverse women (on the autistic/aspergic/ADHD spectrums) may struggle to express emotions, or with social situations. In some northern working-class contexts femininity is associated with strength and aggression. As always an intersectional understanding is vital and we need to be mindful that what is culturally regarded as the epitome of femininity is white, middle class, youthful, non-disabled, heterosexual, cisgender, and thin. This strongly shapes all women’s experiences of womanhood.

It doesn't describe me but I'm northern and a lesbian so, from the second paragraph, I'm not sure if that means I get a pass on some of the characteristics??

That is absolutely disgusting. Talk about stereotyping. Ffs.

I have ADHD and mild ASD. I do wear makeup and dresses though. So who knows!

BACP, the 1950s called. They want their stereotypes back.

Vulnerable and concerned with appearance? Wow...

This is what a man is:

2.7 Gender identity: man
Definitions

Whether trans or cisgender, intersex or not, many people identify as men.However, what this means varies a great deal depending on their other intersecting attributes. It is important not to assume, for example, that being a man necessarily involves having a penis or being physically strong. Being a man in a British cultural context often means adhering to social norms of masculinity, such as being competitive, ambitious, independent, rational, tough, sexual, confident, dominant, taking risks, and caring about their work.

However, of course, not all men adhere to all these things. For example some men take on major child-rearing roles in the family or enter caring professions. Some young men adopt an ongoing lad or ‘man-child’ identity and may remain averse to work or responsibility, and dependent on others financially. Many men in urban subcultures spend a lot of time and care on their appearance, through clothing, make-up, exercise regimes, tattoos and/or piercings. As always an intersectional understanding is vital and we need to be mindful that what is culturally regarded as the epitome of masculinity is white, middle class, non-disabled, heterosexual, cisgender, and physically fit. This strongly shapes men’s experiences of manhood.

Now I'm really not sure whether I'm a man or a woman. Maybe I need some counselling from BACP...

Well, I'm white, middle-class nurturing, non-disabled, heterosexual, thin.

The same could describe my XH. Or my dad. None of us are youthful. I'm also very job focused which I think was on the men's list.

I'm also aggressive and not northern.

I don't care about appearance.

I'm not sure I tick enough boxes to qualify for anything!

Come on BACP. April 1st was ages ago.

Problem there is you aren't 'rational' so anything you say is null and void anyway

Well, shit.

I have tattoos and I’d rather die than lose a game of Hungry Hippos, so I guess I must be a fella.

Wow - it's taken me 5 decades to realise that my independence, competitiveness and confidence mean I'm actually a man . . . . .

Please, please can I identify out of the horrendous period pain I'm suffering today.

I certainly don't meet that definition.

I am an adult female human. Nothing of that is mentioned, so wtf am I?

After reading that I realise I am gender confused.

There I was, thinking that, possessing a penis, I was therefore a man.

Having read both definitions I am no longer certain :)

It would appear I am half man, half woman, given that I don't care about my appearance, do care about my job, and I'm competitive, and not financially dependent. And there I was thinking I was a woman.

Having read that I've decided to identify as a man child. Sounds kind of fun. Yes I might be middle aged, XX, overweight and such, but my inner identity is man child.
I find fart jokes funny. I rest my case.

Both patently absurd, and highlight the inevitable madness of the end-state of identity politics.

Some of the headbangers on here will, no doubt, be pleased with the far more disparaging description of manhood though;

'Some young men adopt an ongoing lad or ‘man-child’ identity and may remain averse to work or responsibility, and dependent on others financially. Many men in urban subcultures spend a lot of time and care on their appearance, through clothing, make-up, exercise regimes, tattoos and/or piercings'

They're tying themselves in knots on this one, aren't they? Primarily it's aimed at being nice to trans people but then they run into the problem (as we all do) that if you don't define sex by, well... sex (chromosomes or sexual organs) then you're quickly into the world of shitty stereotyped gender roles. Then they try and make that OK by giving you a free pass to say that you're allowed to be unfeminine and still define yourself as female if you've got ASD or... you're northern, which is pretty unintentionally hilarious and makes me wish I was a northerner

You know though there was a perfectly acceptable way to do this so that trans people and women including gender critical feminists would have been able to be identified in a way that they were happy with. They could have said, there are people who believe that they are men or women based on their biological sex, and there are people who believe that they are men or women based on their identification with the traditional gender roles in our society. But I suspect that for the TRA lobby that wouldn't have been enough. We don't just have to accept what they believe about themselves, we have to apply it to ourselves as well.

By those definitions I am part man, part woman. I'm obviously very confused.

Surely that wasn't written by an adult? It reads like something I wrote when I was doing my GCSEs, designed to take up as much space as possible without actually saying very much.

I must be category C - other.

Reads like a Barum Effect meaningless word salad to me.

Being a woman in a British cultural context often means adhering to social norms of femininity, such as being nurturing, caring, social, emotional, vulnerable, and concerned with appearance.

fucking hell

Whoever wrote that needs to be fucking kneecapped

Ok, so I don't think I'm a woman in a British cultural context and cannot bear children and am breastless (pesky cancer).
So I must be a man. Best tell DH.

"Cannot bear children" may be accurate in both contexts this morning, the school run was a little fraught.

urturing, caring, social, emotional, vulnerable, and concerned with appearance

Based on this one of us is social, one of us is caring and emotional

Both of us are concerned with appearance...one only cos they have to be .... the social one is more concerned

One of us has given birth to 3 people

If im not a woman or a man what am i

Answer....pissed off

Well that’s a load of old wank.