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AIBU?

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Original poster

CF cleaner?

42 replies

Changeitquik · 29/08/2018 22:35

Namechanged to delink from prior posts.

Recently our long-term (self-employed) cleaner has started asking for cash in hand rather than the usual bank transfer, and has asked for a raise and to be paid per hour rather than a weekly fee. Cash in hand is a pain as we have to remember to leave it.

The agreement has always been been 4 hours split unevenly over 2 days, so 1.5 hours one day early in the week and 2.5 hrs later in the week. We’ve never ‘enforced’ the hours and used to pay a flat rate for the service, which, funnily enough works out the same as the ‘raise’ we were asked for, for the hours, which we pointed out at the time. The new expectation is we leave the cash out when they come.

We recently had a minor burglary so got some cctv cameras and now get motion alerts with video. We have been away and earlier this week saw that the cleaner was in the house for just 45 mins. The job got done but the house was pretty clean already. This isn’t the first time it’s happened, but normally someone’s there and it’s not quite as significant. If we aren’t there it’s markedly shorter.

We don’t want to be petty or stingy, but as the job is still adequately being done, DH suggests we pay as they’ve asked, an hourly cash sum (so pro-rata of the hour). But that we only pay what they worked. I don’t know how we can provide that except in arrears without the awkward conversation about them triggering the cameras as I know they expect the full sum .

I don’t want to cause drama but it feels like we’re being taken advantage of. It makes me sad as theyve been with us for years and we are friendly. Maybe they’re struggling to get by and are trying to cut corners with us as they think we may be understanding, to maybe take on another job? I don’t know. Is this CF-ery, or are we being too soft??? Or both??

OP posts:
Thehop · 29/08/2018 22:38

You’re being too soft. If you can’t trust her to be honest about her Hours (she’s stealing, by lying) then do you really want her having a key to your home?

Find someone else.

TheMonkeyMummy · 29/08/2018 22:39

Does she know about the camera? I would mention it in passing and then start to ask her to clarify again how she wants to be paid...

MatildaTheCat · 29/08/2018 22:43

My friend and I both had the same cleaner. She went to my friend first and then to me.she was consistently arriving at my house well before she was due to leave friend’s house and this didn’t include the bus ride plus good walk required to get between houses.

I felt this was dishonest and decided not to use her anymore ( I was mostly at home so she stayed when I was there),my friend said that the tasks were completed ok so she kept her on despite her being the one paying for hours not worked.

I think it just depends on your attitude to the work. My attitude is that 2 hours work is 2 hours work and there is always something that needs doing.

supercalifragilistic2 · 29/08/2018 22:49

Is she planning on making up those extra 45 minutes the next shift?
If this is a one of (like you say the house was clean), and she's a good cleaner maybe let it slide, although I would be tempted to mention something 'oh I popped back at x and realised you had gone already, did you have an emergency/arrive early etc' then see what she mentions, if she says 'ah yes I got here earlier than normal' you know she's pulling your leg, but if she mentions an appointment/emergency and that she will do extra for the next one, then leave her be.

If you don't want to pay cash maybe ask to leave the agreement as is,. You may find she's finding people aren't paying and getting people to pay upfront in cash means she actually does get paid.

HollowTalk · 29/08/2018 22:52

I would really hate this and would fire her. If you can't trust her in one respect, you can't trust her in any respect.

RichmondMumof2 · 29/08/2018 22:53

If she is a reliable cleaner and gets the work done, pay her the 4 hours worth of money. Paying a decent living wage is charity wrapped in dignity. Thank her for her efficient working and doing the job ahead of schedule.

Original poster
Changeitquik · 29/08/2018 22:57

Yes I suppose since being specifically asked to pay hourly it’s caused us to think about the timekeeping aspect - we used to pay them if they were on hols etc as well, which we’ve now stopped because of the cash in hand. We like being generous as they’ve been good over the years but can’t see how to continue it as they’ve asked us to change how we compensate them!

We were paying £60 a week flat and now are being asked for £15/hr which would work out to £60 a week for the 4h if they were being done. DH did point this out to them but I’m not sure they followed that it was much of a muchness, except the hassle of getting cash - provided the hours were broadly being kept!

OP posts:
Ginger1982 · 29/08/2018 22:59

If you pay £60 and then watch the footage back and see they only worked say, 3 hours, just deduct from the following week's payment.

Cloudyapples · 29/08/2018 23:02

You pay £15 an hour?? My Cleaner in London is only £10. I’d be getting big a different Cleaner and letting them know from the start about the cameras.

Original poster
Changeitquik · 29/08/2018 23:07

@richmondmumof2 you and I are on the same wavelength, I definitely agree with that statement. I was just thinking we are starting to be taken advantage of because of it.

OP posts:
Davros · 29/08/2018 23:08

If you start paying cash in hand that could be basically a pay rise anyway as tax probably won't be paid

Original poster
Changeitquik · 29/08/2018 23:15

Yes we know we pay over the odds ...

I can’t comment on the tax aspect but it has obviously crossed our minds too.

OP posts:
lexer · 29/08/2018 23:18

If she's doing the work as you like, why would you ever think of trying to get someone else?
Someone else might be cheaper, take longer, not do a good job.

But remember, she's an employee and she's not 100 trustworthy. Shame, but I'd probably still keep her on with the history you have.

sirmione16 · 29/08/2018 23:22

You're being too soft. It's a job. They're supposed to be providing a service for a specified amount of time. They're slacking. It's your responsibility to now get them in line or let them go. Don't let them take advantage of you by taking your money for nothing in return!

On a separate note - if you're fussed about hours worked, then tell them firmly you know what they've worked and will pay them according to that. If they show up to work late or leave early then that's their decision. Someone else will work it! Trust me!
However if it's a case of you're happy to pay the asked for money so long as the standard of work and amount of work is to your liking, then it doesn't matter how long they're there - just as long as they're doing the job.

That's your decision. But ffs stop being pushed around by them. They've already taken your money for nothing. It's dishonest and it's unprofessional. Stop it now.

Maelstrop · 29/08/2018 23:25

Presumably the cleaner knows there are cameras? Is she aware she triggers them? By all means, pay her per hour. When she queries the reduced money, remind her that she wanted paying per hour and show her the camera footage.

HoleyCoMoley · 29/08/2018 23:30

If it works out the same rate pay her by the hour on the understanding that a deduction will be made if she doesnt work the full hour. If she says she always works the full 4 hours a week you know she is lying.

Nanny0gg · 30/08/2018 08:35

If you want her to do 4 hours work and she's being paid for four hours work, then she needs to do 4 hours work.

It's not like she's being given set tasks which she's finishing quickly, she's just not doing her job.

Give her the chance to put that right (and I hope she knows about the camera) or get rid, you're being robbed.

Fattymcfaterson · 30/08/2018 08:41

If the jobs being done then pay her, if you'd rather the job be done and her to spend 45 minutes looking at Facebook so she hits the time target it's up to you.

Just because a cleaner "stays" 2 hours, doesn't mean 2 hours worth of work is being done

Shoxfordian · 30/08/2018 08:42

Why do you pay over the going rate? Also you're the employer, if its not convenient for you to pay in cash you can just say no. I agree with your husband, you should pay her the actual hours she did, text her and say you noticed she only worked x hours so you're paying x

If she doesn't like it then there's plenty of other cleaners about. Don't make friends with the next one

GreenTulips · 30/08/2018 09:12

That £20 a week could pay for the ironing to be done

Or a saving of £1000 a year

Plenary of people to take her position ask around

RichmondMumof2 · 30/08/2018 09:20

I also pay £15ph. Reliability is important to me and having been a cleaner whilst a student I realise it's hard work. We don't value these vital jobs in society (the 3 C's, cleaning, cooking and caring) these demanding jobs get paid the least. Typically women do these roles too. Pay a good wage to your team.

MsJolly · 30/08/2018 09:26

I pay my cleaner for 4 hours-if she finishes her normal work early she asks me what else I want done to fill in the time-she doesn't bunk off!

Original poster
Changeitquik · 30/08/2018 10:17

She is due to be here tomorrow and I will be at home.... So maybe I’ll ask her if she would prefer one less hour a week as we’ve noticed she’s able to get round quickly.

The short session in the week she does downstairs and the first floor, and later in the week she does the whole house (it’s a townhouse). So this last time the 2nd floor upstairs was left, although there was time to do it if she’d run out of stuff to do on the bottom two floors. There would have been other things too that she could have done (radiators, organising, deep clean of cupboards etc to fill the time).

So perhaps I’ll ask her if changing the priority and potentially doing the whole house each time for 1.5 hours would suit her schedule better and enable us to pay more in line with the hourly rate she’s asked for....

OP posts:
Original poster
Changeitquik · 30/08/2018 10:31

And further to the generousity point, I have no problem at all of paying a living wage of £15/h but presently we are effectively paying £20-£24 ph which just feels excessive.

OP posts:
smellsofelderberries · 30/08/2018 10:32

I would ask her to actually work her hours which you pay for. There are almost always extra things to be done if she's getting through things. I would often come home to find our cleaner had finished the usual jobs quite quickly so has cleaned the oven, or done a little ironing (which wasn't part of her usual remit). Considering how much over the odds you're paying, I would expect her to be working the hours paid. Otherwise you're effectively paying her £30 an hour!