Telling df a few home truths about her pfb.

[Goneforlunch]

Yesterday I had kind of kicked off at df about her ds, we were sat having a joke conversation with my dm, in which I said she needs to find a rich dh so he can look after me when she dies, all of a sudden df piped up and said "don't talk about dying in front of her ds as he thinks we live forever"
I have her a look as I thought she was joking, she wasn't.

Anyway I said you can't really make him believe we live forever and what would happen if she died tomorrow, how would we explain that to him?
She then started on a mad rant that he is scared of everything and that my d's always scare him, so I told her if she felt that way then her ds would not be welcome to stay at my house anymore, which of course made her backtrack on what she had said.

By this time she had now got my back up as she was accusing my ds' of doing things purposefully to upset her ds, so I told her a few home truths.
Not many children like her ds as he is rude, spiteful and doesn't listen when told to stop hitting or kicking, my eldest ds doesn't even leave my side anymore when we're at her house as he is always being attacked and he doesn't want to get in trouble for hitting back at someone who is younger.

There have been alot if issues with his dad and I can understand why he behaves in a certain way, but she blames everyone else for what he's doing rather than concentrating on his behaviour.
He is one of those children that you have to watch everything you say around as he goes back and tells tales, which of course she believes even if he's wrong, she then accuses people of trying to make him out as a bad person.

My worry for both of them is that she isn't preparing him for life outside of her home by trying to hard to shelter him from the truth because of how she reacted to things as a child, it's leading to him being picked on and laughed at.

I can't even reply to this because it doesn't make sense.
DF is dear / darling father or fiancé - who are you talking about?
And what's this random stuff about marrying a rich man and who are you referring to with that.

@Maiseypops yes I do think he could be a nicer child, if he was made out to be the victim all the time, which of course isn't his fault.
I am not the only one who has noticed all of these things, it just so happens that I was the one who said it.

Blimey at the start of Frozen Elsa and Ana's parents die.

@Hellotoyou Df is also used to refer to a friend.
It was a joke conversation we were having with my Dm after seeing an advert for sugardaddy.com.

@Branleuse Yes I did tell her that, why is that a problem? I told her the truth, her ds is violent towards other children and not many people like him because of it, infact most people don't like violent people full stop.

I would remove yourself from the friendship. My best friends daughter is very similar. Can hurt anyone she likes but cries if anyone retaliates. The turning point for me was when she wanted to drive in my car but had a slush puppie I said you will need to drink that as I have no drinks policy. Same rules for my kids. The child screamed so much her mum took her and I was referred to the evil step mum won’t let you in her car ok come in mine. Infact I dread seeing said child as she is spoilt rotten and even bullies her own sister at school. Which my friend finds hilarious.

I didn't say she was ineffective, but is it ok for her to say things about me and my dcs?
I think as so much has happend in the past, what she said was the last straw.
I also never said I was in the right to have said something, which is why I started this tread.

OP I think you need to move away from this friend.

I was in similar situation once. Mum I liked, got on with. Her PFB (only) was/is a manipulative little monkey. He wouldn't share. Told tales on other kids. Hit then lied when confronted. Discipline was never consistent or applied.

This behaviour was seen by more adults than just me.

I advised DS to give wide berth but this kid attached himself to DS and his friends. Was horrible to DS and others, and school did the whole "play nicely" thing.

In the end DS snapped. He shouted at him and there was a bit thrown. I'm not condoning it but after the incessant windings up over years I understood.

This child's mother went apoplectic at school. My child and the others were bullies. I got singled out in the playground by her and her cronies. Bear in mind I thought this woman was a friend.

I blocked her, by every method, and haven't spoken to her since. Maintained my dignity and walked away.

The child was moved to another school. Same problems there. She fails to see the problem is with her kid....

Walk away, for the sake of your child. In a few years it may well make them anxious and worried, like it did with mine.

I just don't understand how any parent can't see that their child is wrong, as I said mine are by no means angels at home, but I have never had one parent complain about them in school or anywhere else.
That also doesn't mean I think the sun shines out of their backsides either before I get jumped on.

I knew a mother and son like this. I cut them both off in the end (should have done it sooner). Best thing I ever did. Awful kid and toxic mother. The kid is now late teens and from the odd thing I still come across occasionally, they're both still as awful, and disliked by people they interact with, as ever.

I agree with everything MaisyPops said - it describes the duo I know/knew perfectly.

Yep, me too!!

I don't know how people don't see it either.

I've always assumed it's because I teach, and nearly every child falling out has a a 50/50 blame aspect. My kids get away with nothing, poor things.

DD1 (now 16) had a manipulative best friend, very much like this, when she was around 6/7 years old. We wanted to move to a village 2 miles away from the town we lived in - we had always said we wanted to move to said village the whole time knowing the family, which was about 8 years. When we finally took the plunge and put our house on the market the DM of the child berated me at baby group (I was with DS2) for moving and ruining her children's lives, when I got up to leave the situation she followed me into the street and screamed at me that it would be better if me and my children had died rather than us moving as it would have been easier (bear in mind we moved less than 2 miles away!!).....it was a truly awful experience as I thought she was my close friend, our DD's were best friends and our respective other children got on well. We moved and I have never spoken to her since.
Sadly it wasn't until after we moved that I realised how toxic the friendship was for both myself and my daughter, it took DD1 several years to trust and make real friends again, her confidence was knocked beyond belief and I never realised how bad it was I'm ashamed to say. Although my experience was completely different my advice is to detach yourself from the friendship, its not a nice thing to do and its not easy but it doesn't sound like you or your DC's get anything from this friendship.

People like this lie to their children and let their children act poorly under the pretence that it is protecting them or letting them be kids. It’s not true. It’s because they don’t want to have to deal with the children’s upset. Learning about our mortality can be big and scary but if we grow up knowing that everyone dies, a young child will accept the reality and it then just becomes a fact of life. Of course there is a point, where children will start to grasp the reality of death and this is the time to reassure them.

As for the criticism against your ds’s. Yes, I totally get why you told her some home truths. I called a child (family member) to wish them a happy birthday only to be told by the parents that the birthday was being celebrated another day so as not to disappoint them. No heads up for my dd, who was waiting eagerly to speak to the child and disappointed by this. Of course. She. Doesn’t. Matter. The parents also scapegoated her on several occasions. We didn’t see him often but he gets taught some weird things and untruths.

How can he be 6 and not have come across death!!

My DS is 7 and lost his Dad this year, she’d have been fuming with his school if her DC went there as they sat each class down to explain where DS had been for over a week from reception up to year 5 (small village school with only 70 kids so they all know each other.

You’ll probably find she distances and that’s probably no bad thing for you!

If it's not exhausting enough having your own children you're now having to deal with this! Can you walk away from this friendship?

Mathilda15

Gone don't feel bad about saying something. Sadly in this type of situation it never seems to result in a eureka moment. I put up with this from nursery age when we met, I will never be such a mug again...

So how were things left? You said your friends son was rude and spiteful and other children didn't like him. What did your friend say or you DM?

You talk about withdrawing from the friendship but my bet would be that you don't have to if I was your friend I'd be done. While yes her child may well have issues there are ways and times to say things in anger with your back up is never that time!

It sounds like your friendship has come to an end to me.

There's a chance her child does know about death from movies etc but she's kind of in denial/ afraid to talk about it because she doesn't know how to.
On the argument it sounds like it was brewing on both sides and she just got to it first. I'm not sure that you're great friends if your initial reaction was to tell her to leave.
On her disciplining when I'm in public I find I'm in somewhat of a daze with the children and trying to keep the peace until we get home when I have a frank discussion with them and tell them to stop. Her child might be ridiculously hyper and she mightn't be able to control him but you should be more supportive about that.
A 6yo is very young and they're still in that 'crazy' stage, chances are he might grow out of it. You saying you're trying to help/protect him and then launching into a tirade saying what a brat he is and how nobody likes him is awful. You can't sneer about a kid like that, he's a child. And I'd walk away but not because she's toxic, more because either you've outgrown each other or else were never friends. OP I think oyu were as out of order as her on this one

Sorry for your loss @Matilda15 my ds' lost their dgd in January so they do have some concept of death.

@itswinetime we left on fairly good terms, although I know she was upset, which is not what I wanted.
Sometimes yes things said in anger can be hurtful, but I never said anything that wasn't the truth and what was said wasn't out of spite and I think she does need to take into consideration what i've said.
Everybody else was sat quietly open mouthed after she had told me not to talk about death.

I'm not saying I wasn't out of order for saying it in the heat of the moment, I should of handled it better.

I also didn't ask her to leave, I told her that if my dcs made her ds uncomfortable then he would no longer be able to have sleepovers at my house, as In her words "they scare him" meaning, they turn the light off when watching a movie or speak about the time they went camping and told scary stories, none of which they have told him by the way, as I said the child is scared of his own shadow because she has placed her childhood fears onto him, none of which is his fault.

The lack of disipline is not just when we're out it could be anywhere even if we're in the house he runs wild, so that is just a cop out excuse, as is saying "6 is still young so they're still a bit crazy" I had two 6 year olds neither of them ever behaved in such a way that they were physically hurting someone else or being rude to them on purpose, should be able to tell your child to stop hurting someone no matter where you are.

Just leave it be and distance yourself. By the sounds of it she won't be in touch,or if she does expect a lot of moaning behind your back.
You disagree on some pretty fundamental parenting issues, you don't much like her kid(fair enough), and I have a feeling your own kids don't get much from these meetings. What's the point?

I think people who are having a pop at the OP for being honest (albeit blunt) seem to be missing the fact that it was the friend who went on a tirade about all the issues she has with the OP's children prior to the OP telling the home truths.

Prior to the OP pointing out some home truths:
She then started on a mad rant that he is scared of everything and that my d's always scare him
By this time she had now got my back up as she was accusing my ds' of doing things purposefully to upset her ds

This woman seems quick to dish it out whilst defending her aggressive child.
At some point someone was going to point out the sun doesn't shine out his arse. And to be honest the older he gets, the less time other children will have for his lies and aggression.

The children at secondary who behave that way tend to be viewed by peers as shit stirrers very quickly and when I've spoken to parenrs about issues involving childreb like that 99% of the time the parents say 'the thing is Mrs Pops, my child isn't the first to have had this happen to... so and so had x y z and so and so did too. We've told our child to stay well away from Timmy because they need to focus on their learning and good friendships.' At least half the time there's a request for their child to be moved well away from stirring child in class too.
Then you get a call from a fuming parent of stirring child complaining that their child is being bullied because they are being excluded by other students. It's always an interesting chat because what usually happens is we point out that there's been multiple issues in the last few months, all involving their child, staff have seen it and picked it up, staff talk to the child about what they've just seen and the child outright lies, we've tried to talk to you about this multiple times and parents are understandably telling their children to keep well away. Children can choose to be friends with who they like and we are not going to force 14 year olds to be friends with someone as long as they can be civil.
Then angry fuming parent starts getting cross, says we don't take bullying seriously, we are victim blaming, she is going to demand a meeting with the head because she is fed up with staff ignoring her. Apparently 'my child wouldn't lie' so 6 students and a member of staff watched their child provoke others but the parent will be adament that everyone is picking on their child.

It's a bloody joke. I'd rather spend my time dealing with actual bullying than an entitled parent who doesn't understand that the natural consequences of their child being unkind and shit stirring means other kids don't want to have much to do with them.

Not quite the same.

The thought of death terrifies my ds7. My Grandmother died this year and he overheard that she was dying before I had a chance to sit him down and tell him gently about her. He let out such an awful scream, I won't go into the rest of that day but I will never forget his reaction. The other day the topic of death came up again and he was wailing.

Also though I didn't think about children not realising what happens when you die. He thought that when you die you explode.

I have an older dd and she is not scared like ds but was a bit scared when she was his age. I would prefer people not to talk about death in front of ds as he knows we all die but just can't handle it at the moment but I have no control over what other people say.

I find it very surprising that your friend's ds doesn't even know about death though.
Surely that would be so much harder if someone close to him died and he had no idea death even exists.

I would find it hard to continue a friendship if my friend was constantly turning a blind eye to her child hurting mine.