To worry about NHS paternity leave in advance?

[IAmAllAstonishment]

I would love some advice from anyone familiar with NHS paternity policy. I’ve looked online but nothing about this.

DP and I are planning to TTC next summer. I I want to give my DP 3 months via shared parental leave as us being together early days is very important to us.

DP is a surgeon and will be StR when we have DC (fingers crossed!) We know he will get little financial compensation (no issue we have ample savings) but he mentioned the other day that he believe the NHS are able to deny requests for shared parental leave if they are too understaffed/ can’t accommodate. (Think it just applies to doctors though)

This worries me as his trust is CONSTANTLY understaffed and overstretched. If it were any other company I’d say no way, they have to comply with shared parental leave but I’m concerned that with the NHS it may be true.

I guess they only have X amount of doctors in each specialty and if women are out on maternity leave/ people are sick/ they’re understaffed anyway ...etc then maybe they can reject male shared paternity leave.

Does anyone know anything about this?

I know it’s a bit early to be planning this but I’d like to prepare myself and have all the information.

I don't work for the NHS but I think this has to be nonsense - shared parental leave isn't something you request, like flexible working, it's a legal right as long as you qualify by length of service etc. It may well be that they'd make his life very difficult, but they can't actively deny him the right to take it.

What they can deny - and this might be what he heard of happening to someone else - is taking the shared parental leave in one more than block, e.g. two months after baby born and then two months when you go back to work. But as long as you take it one block it's a legal entitlement that they can't deny.

That’s helpful to know. Silly question but I got confused about this whilst reading online about shared paternity leave, can you both take time off from the birth? Eg if I was taking 9 months and giving him 3, can we both be off for the first 3 then him go back and me have another 6? X

Doctors have no special exemptions from employment rights, whatever his boss may say. Female doctors take their leave when they need to, to not allow male doctors the same would be discriminatory.

He should just inform them correctly when he is taking his leave. NHS packages are generous in terms of pay, but the last 3months is usually unpaid.

He may find his bosses are boorish and stuck in the past, but he should man up, check the policies, and take his leave.

Shared parental leave after a baby is born is different to general parental leave which can be postponed (not denied, postponed) for business reasons. But the hospital is always going to be short staffed, so they'd have to argue it's worse than even normal. But that doesn't apply to this sort of leave. He needs to know what the entitlement is, and inform them.

The BMA website says he can have up to 26 weeks but ONLY if the mother has returned to work.

Hi. I work in the NHS. The Trust your partner is employed by will have a clear policy on this available online or by contacting HR. He can bring it home for you to look through together.

Yeah that’s what I saw about the 26 weeks but only if I have returned to work? I know that’s not how other companies work as new parents frequently take the first few month off together. The BMA website seems to contradict the shared parental leave policy on gov website. Xx

Legally yes, you can do it as you've just suggested just so long as you hand in your notice of intention to end your maternity leave after 9 months. He will also be entitled to his 2 weeks paternity leave as well. (no experience of NHS but experience of shared parental leave combining a teacher and civil servant and had to do a lot of research as found most employers even public sector had no real idea about entitlements)

@whitechocolatespaceegg

I’m sure they have a policy, but it’s just taken him 5 months and insane amounts of emails/ phone calls to simply get his mileage claim approved. I’m not holding my breath for a copy of the paternity policy anytime soon!

No, I don't think the mother has to return to work, they just have to end their maternity leave, and it becomes "shared parental leave" instead.

I know male registrars that have only taken the 2 weeks + whatever annual leave they'll get. I know a male consultant who's taking the bulk of the parental leave, his wife is only taking a few weeks (works from home).

Is your DP currently in a training programme or has he not yet applied for it? He could end up in an entirely different trust, although everywhere is short staffed.

Ime, they're quicker and easier for sorting this sort of thing than mileage claims! Mileage goes to a special kind of fuckoff slow department, where they file 30% in the bin at random, reject another 20% for being on white rather than cream paper, and then 10% get told the wrong person has signed it, despite them signing every month so far, and it being fine. The rest get returned as more than 3 months has passed, as you've been going through that farce...

As a new child adds a certain deadline for them, they tend to be a bit better!

The BMA always has been a law unto itself! I'm sure his Trust's medical staffing will tell him exactly how it works. I hate to tell you this, though, if his having three months off means cancelling ops or employing a locus,, he's unlikely to get it.

So I get full pay for the first six months (lucky me). Would that mean I have to end my maternity leave and transfer to ‘shared parental leave’ immediately so that DP could stay at home for the first 3 months?

If so would I miss out on my paid leave?

@takeachanseyonme
He’s currently CT3 and will be ST4 hopefully by time DC arrives. Unlikely to move trusts as we own a home here and it’s not one of the most competitive.

Hi OP I work in the nhs, if it’s like my place all hr leave policies are freely available on the trust’s intranet pages. There should also be a named person in HR for Doctors organised by department eg gynae surgery, anaesthetics etc.

Locum, damn it!

bluelady, it's a right, not a privilege. He is entitled to take it, if he meets the criteria, which with single employing trusts is getting more frequently the case. If a female surgeon goes on mat leave, she goes. This is equivalent.

Female surgeons will never achieve equality until male surgeons start taking their leave. So, props to OP's DH. The trust cannot refuse the leave on grounds of cover, if he's entitled, he's entitled.

OP, I'm not sure, you'd have to check your own work's policy, but I suspect you may have to go to statutory.

Tbh, the early days aren't the best for dad to be off, anyway, the baby just wants milk and mum. Get him to take his 2 weeks paternity, then shared leave later on probably makes more sense. Once they start eating a bit, go longer between feeds, and are less boring.

I know it's a right. I also know how brutal the NHS can be in trying to deprive employees of their rights.

He should be able to access the policy himself. All trust policies have to be accessible by all members of staff.
He’ll find it on the Staff intranet most likely. Possibly under the HR tab.

I agree with PP who say take paternity leave for 2 weeks and try to get holidays booked on to the end of that, then shared parental leave when you go back. I recently left a job at the NHS and one guy got six weeks off saving up his holidays (from a very understanding manager though!)

Both your employers should have a policy on how shared works. Your entitled to 50 weeks to share with 39 of that paid. Depending on your companies policy will determine how the money part is split. You DH can also take paternity leave which is usually two weeks from the day the baby is born.

Hi Im a manager in the NHS and deal with specialty trainees and mat/pat leave all the time.

First off, as a previous poster has said the paternity policy will be available on the Trust Intranet - he just needs to look for it. Will be under maternity/paternity/shared/special/leave policy or whatever your trust has named it. So he wont have to wait months to access it. Once you have read it if you have any further questions ring the HR dept to ask.

You wont both be able to be off at the same time AND both get maternity/paternity pay. The way most do it, is for the mother to be off on maternity leave, father takes 2 weeks stat paternity leave (paid) and then however many weeks annual leave he has/can afford to use. Or any additional time unpaid. Though the latter would have to be agreed and approved and is t guarenteed due to the reasons you suggested in your OP.

For your partner to get pat leave for 3 months you would have to end your maternity leave. You couldnt go back on mat leave later.

My advice is have a real think about what you really want and can afford/are able to do. Bare in mind in many trusts annual leave of over 3 weeks at anyone time (especially in surgery) has to go to higher management to approve (not all, but some).

Fortunately the NHS is super supportive of things like this. So the chances are he will be supported.

Another thing to consider is the leave policy of the deanary from which your husband is training if this is different to the Trust he is working at.

Hope that helps, fingers crossed the situation you want works out for you xx

@Manycatsandallthegin is that just and NHS policy you can't be off at the same time as your partner as in private sector you can