To think this is the fair and kind way to fund social care crisis

[BarnabyBungle]

So two people each have £325k in assets.... one dies of a heart attack suddenly and leaves inheritance for family (and/or anyone else they so choose), the other gets severe dementia and spends years in an expensive home, and spends all but the £14k threshold left when they die.

Hardly fair is it?..... But then it’s unreasonable to increase general taxes to fund care as it would mean those without substantial assets would be paying for enabling those that did....

Surely lowering inheritance tax threshold and/or increasing the rate would be fair. If the limit were, say, £125k, and the rate was, say, 40% on inheritance above to the current £325k threshold, both imdividuals would pay £80k inheritance tax, enabling both to pass on £245k, rather than one passing on £325k and the other £14k.

Not only would this be far fairer it would help alleviate the anxiety of those with dementia knowing their condition means they will mean their assets will be dramatically reduced as their disease progresses.

Gromance, I think those ‘healthy offspring’ can take responsibility for making their own money. If they inherit, that’s nice and a privilege. If not, well presumedly they have their own live and jobs and abilities to rely on. We are talking about adults here.

I just hope I’ve enough money for DH and I to be looked after well and comfortably for however long we need it without impacting on our children’s lives. That’s our tesponsibility to ensure, that we can afford ourselves so our kids don’t suffer. Our kids receiving money and inheritance, well that is not something that is my responsibility to die for. I hope I can leave them all something to give them help at the time but I don’t owe them that. I will try to ensure I’m not a burden and that they have good educations and emotional support throughout my life.

How the fuck can you be offended by something I didn't say?

Your comment insinuates that families will pressure disabled people to kill themselves if assisted suicide is legal.

@redneck. So no nhs then? Less police then? Worse prisons? Education even shitter then it's now?

Yay let's lower taxes!

What we need is more tax, more investment in our services and inheritance tax is a great way of doing it.

This is a massive dissincentive to save and be prudent with your money. Why shouldn't your children inherit what you've carefully saved ? Why should your inheritance go to fund someone else's old age when maybe they've enjoyed a more lavish lifestyle but not saved for their old age
This ^.

My dear grandmother died very slowly of alzheimers. She peeled the wallpaper off the wall next to her out of sheer frustration as she couldn't move or communicate. I am crying as I write this. No-one should be kept alive under those conditions. I know it's a cliché but you wouldn't do that to an animal. I hope to God that living wills become the norm in my lifetime. If you want to live under any conditions, that is obviously your choice but for me, life is about living. All the while hundreds of thousands of pounds of her money were used to torture her like this. I have no words.

@Mintylicious
Yes, in dementia cases it would be difficult to "police (for want of a better word). In my opinion, the person's wishes would need to be documented and witnessed when the person is of sound mind, uncoerced, witnessed by 2 or more independent people. And there would need to be caveats e.g. "I want to die when I can no longer toilet by myself" or "I want to die if I cannot safely live independently without outside care for basic hygiene needs" etc. The request should never come from an outside person like a husband saying it's his wife's wishes if she had never expressed that wish when of sound mind. That's when it would be open to abuse.

What i propose would stop the unfairness
And how do you propose to stop other types of unfairness? I’m unlucky enough to have coeliac disease. Gluten free foods cost treble the price of the normal version. An extra £20 per week spent on special food adds up to £60-70k over a lifetime. Should my special food be free so I can save that £60-70k to leave to my kids?

Life is unfair. People get lots of health conditions that mean they end up spending more in their daily lives to manage their condition, thus leaving them with less inheritance at the end. There’s no reason why dementia should be a special case.

@Radardetector - perhaps you should find out a few more facts about assisted dying in Switzerland before you make such uninformed comments.

Radardetector

My comment doesn't "insinuate" that at all, I don't know you so why would I think you would do anything? Get over yourself.

My comment is a concern shared by disability rights groups.

This is a thread that was started to speak about the cost of social care and as always the first responses all focused on assisted suicide. And as always anybody questioning that is jumped on by people crying outrage because of their own personal experiences.

Linking the cost of social care with assisted suicide is shit and we should be allowed to speak about the implications without being accused of being offensive.

@Defrack

Yes slim down public services to the basic minimum.

All non essential services should charge a use tax. (Toll roads) Therefore weeding out the services and infrastructure that doesn’t get used.

If the government wants to pay for stuff it should be able to raise the money without taxing the population (start a government oil business, weapons manufacturing etc) these profits can then replace taxes.

RedneckStumpy

What services are essential? How do you think tolling all roads would effect industry?

I am genuinely interested by the way.

IMO the cost of social care is linked with inheritance and high house prices. Young people struggle to buy homes without financial help from older generations. It makes sense that the older generations don’t want their wealth squandered on keeping them alive as an empty shell when it could be their kids and grandkids only hope of ever owning a home.

I think assisted suicide is less likely to be used by disabled children or people with no assets, and more likely to be used by older people who want their families to inherit their wealth rather than spending it on care fees. (Or vice versa, only people with assets are likely to be pressured into assisted suicide)

All the discussion so far has focused on older people. But young disabled people have to pay for their social care as well. I know disabled people where the majority of their wages are taken in charges to pay for their social care. Without that care they couldn't leave the house.

How is it fair that they have to pay just for the right to live indepenently and to work when almost all other services are free at the point of access and are paid through taxation. It's a tax on disabled people

Social care was something that was provided by the family in the case of old relatives.
My parents looked after their older generation, they had a downstairs room and we all had to bunch in together.
You got no financial help, society expected you to look after your relatives, it was the acceptable thing to do, it was your duty.

Now, so many people aren't prepared to do this and live their lifestyle in such a way that they tell themselves they couldn't possibly do this.
My friend is a carer for old people, it saddens her when they all crawl from the woodwork like leeches when their relative dies and they think there's some money, it's disgusting the way people treat their families now.

I don't think OPs comparisons are fair. The person who died of a heart attack didn't need £10k's of care so of course they or the state didn't need to pay for it.

@DingDongDenny That was exactly my point. People with a variety of health conditions and disabilities have higher living costs that result in them leaving less inheritance. Not just dementia sufferers.

But what if someone has worked hard all their lives and saved for it to be passed on?? If that is their wish? I am absolutely out of here if I get so old I need to be cared for.

@Tessliketrees

You said assisted suicide will put pressure on disabled people.

If your not insinuating that families will pressure their disabled relatives to kill themselves, what are you saying?

Agree with septima.

Inheritance isn't a right

Erm I think it is legally a right, yes.

Radardetector

I suggest you reread my posts but ponder this as well-

If I said "taking CB off mothers risks more women being financially abused" how would you feel if a husband waded in an accused me of saying he was abusing his wife? Same thing. You decided to take it personally. It's not my problem.

@RomanyRoots

I agree with your post to a degree. There are people that don't want to look after an elderly relative but don't want their inheritance to pay for that relatives care. Which is wrong and they shouldn't really get to have it both ways.

But there are also people that can't look after an elderly relative, whether that's financial, geographical or because of their own health or existing responsibilities. Thats why there should be more support to give people the option of looking after their relatives and saving their inheritance. £250 pm carers allowance isn't really enough to allow most people to give up work and provide round the clock care.

Also if providing care was better supported, people in a poor financial situation may choose to care for a relative even if there was no inheritance.

I don't think OPs comparisons are fair. The person who died of a heart attack didn't need £10k's of care so of course they or the state didn't need to pay for it.

But had they needs £10k’s in heart medicine and surgery before their heart attack you’re implying they should have paid for that?!

@Tessliketrees

Not the same at all. I've read you comment. Your saying assist suicide puts pressure on disabled people. Well who is pressuring them? Are you saying the government will? They will pressure themselves? Or do you think their carers, which in the majority of cases would be their family, are pressuring them.

That's healthcare funded by NHS @BarnabyBungle not social care.