To think children should be free on buses the same as OAPs

[P3onyPenny]

Our bus company used to charge £7 for a 10 mile adult ticket and £1 each for children which wasn't too bad. The £1 child ticket has now been scrapped and I've just paid £18 for me and 3 dc to travel 10 miles. I think that is extortionate. The Park and Ride is always filled by office workers and city parking is extortionate. I don't always have access to a car. During the holidays the bus was always full with a variety of ages and several children. Now it only appears to be OAPs on it. We were literally the only non OAPs travelling,I presume due to the cost. We live in a fairly rural area,our library is rarely open( unlike the city one) and we don't have the city shops or many amenities such as cinema,sports centre,big shops etc.

We'll just organise ourselves so I can drive into town,pay the extortionate parking and add to the congestion. Other families not so fortunate won't be able to do this and to be honest environmentally I don't think it should be encouraged anyway.

My parents have a brand new car and are far better off than us. It just seems daft that they get bus transport free and kids who don't have any income don't.

AIBU to think oap bus passes should be means tested with the money saved funding a child bus pass scheme? At the very least just for the holidays or even £1 a ticket scheme like Stagecoach ran before.

Nope did you not read the thread. Think we'd established a flat £1 fee for both groups would be better.

Others have said means testing is expensive,there is a cliffedge. Means testing needs to be on household income( CB illustrates that) and actually means testing kids can have a dentrimental impact on kids when parents who don't qualify don't pass on what they can supposedly afford e.g. Uni funding.

Agree with TheWorld, now that children have to stay in education or training until 18, why do child prices stop at 16? Why does my child in year 12 have to pay full adult price to get to college, when her situation is no different to when she was in year 11?

My mother is old enough for a bus pass and often travels by bus as she doesn’t like city parking but refuses to get a pass as she says it’s wrong when she can afford to be pay. I’m rather proud of her for that (even if the bus drivers seem to struggle with her wanting to pay!!)

I never get the bus as it’s far cheaper to drive and park for our family and we only get one bus an hour in our village. And yet the council go on about how people should use public transport.

Actually I did read the thread, I must have missed something. However, I think YOU might have established that, not sure WE have.

You're on a hiding to nothing unless public transport is taken into public ownership because it is handled differently by different councils across the country. Even if what you suggest was deemed more fair, the argument is still where does that money come from to subsidise all this travel and having read the options mentioned on here, I have yet to see one that provides a sensible answer.

Interesting Freddy. Clearly the free bus pass scheme isn't fit for purpose,basically the rest of us have to deal with the impact in order for Tories to keep their grey vote. That is shite. The irony is it's having a detrimental impact on the voters they're trying to impress. Poorer local services and less routes as fee paying travellers are bumped off.

Yy to Nearly et al with teens in education. Many kids are clearly priced out of some schools. Really not on.

The "Grey Vote" is only important because so many younger people can't be arsed to vote. If the majority of parents with school-aged kids bothered to get involved with politics, especially at a local level, then change may happen, but they are too lazy to do so. You get the government you deserve - one that ignores you.

There have been studies that show that scrapping the free bus pass for pensioners would actually COST the economy over £1.7 billion annually (this figure is taken from a 2014 report so could be higher or lower now).

How? Which report? Who commissioned it?

The report was undertaken by consultants at accountancy firm KPMG on behalf of Greener Journeys, a national campaign to promote sustainable travel. Not a pensioner group.

There are benefits to the bus pass, of course. It’s just that most paying bus users feel the hit of fare increases instantly, any country wide benefits are not felt by them. Therefore it feels ( and is to an extent ) unfair.

Can you link and why would it cost that much to ditch the scheme and come up with an alternative?

Here's the link to a very brief summary that The Guardian ran.

www.theguardian.com/society/2014/sep/09/scrapping-free-bus-travel-older-people-cost

It doesn't propose any alternative, of course, as that's not what the report was asked to do. It's about what wouldn't happen any more if free travel was scrapped.

Most drivers are earning double the minimum wage per hour.

Absolute bollocks.

There is no link to the report,no details how or why it would cost that much,no financial breakdown,no details as to who commissioned it or any details at all. Surely details of said report should be elsewhere.

@meadowmeow our senior drivers do. Juniors have to work their way up to it. I earn almost double the minimum wage. It will be less with small operators, yes. Big companies will pay it if you stay. I know what I earn. Due to our last pay deal being up on the wall for us all to read, I know what the long service drivers are earning. It’s double the minimum wage per hour. Flip side is when sick they get SSP and are deducted any break time. But while behind the wheel we most certainly do in the company I work for 🤷‍♀️ The reason I still work there is my wage. There are many jobs with better hours and conditions, but much less money to do them

Slightly off topic, but it seems that outside the big cities, bus services are just too expensive for all those who do have to pay - last time I attempted to use a bus - this is about 7 years ago - I nearly fainted at the ticket price of £6.50 one way, for a 10 mile journey, and thereafter used my car instead - who wouldn't when it's cheaper even for one person travelling? The few buses I see in my rural area are always mostly empty. I wonder why they don't change to minibuses which would at least be cheaper to buy and run, then offer cheaper fares to get people out of their cars.

I agree op. We also used to have the £1 add on fee but it has been scrapped, it cost me £9.40 to take my 3 kids 2 miles to the beach last week. Driving would have been cheaper even factoring in extortionate parking.

no details as to who commissioned it

Now who isn't reading. It clearly says it was commissioned by Greener Journeys. Which I also put in my previous comment.

Here's a link to Greener Journey's website. I did a search for "bus pass". Throws up quite a few things. Maybe the report is there?

greenerjourneys.com/?s=Bus+pass

In an ideal world public transport would be free for children but councils haven't got enough money to make it free now. I think there is slight more reason for making it free for pensioner vs. children as they can't usually walk as far and it may reduce the number driving cars.

our senior drivers do. Juniors have to work their way up to it. I earn almost double the minimum wage. It will be less with small operators, yes. Big companies will pay it if you stay.

So not most bus drivers then?

Senior drivers with the local NX are on £11 per hour. Nowhere near double minimum wage. It is ridiculous to say big companies pay that. They do not.

I think nation wide children 16 and under should travel free on all transport then if they go on to college/uni it should be half fare.
I am in favour of means tested bus passes as some of my retired friends have really good incomes and can afford bus fares even if they only pay a nomimal amount.
My DD pays £8.00 a day for school bus fare for my 2 x DGCs,she chose for them to go to grammer school out of area but they should still get help with the costs imo.

who is going to pay for this?
other passengers? councils?

I don't object to a (half?) child fare on buses and trains. What I do strongly object to, is 16 year olds having to pay full adult fares.
Most 16 year olds are still going to compulsory SCHOOL. Even 17-18 year olds HAVE to go to training or education - yet they don't suddenly have any increase in income at that age. I think it's a scandal actually.
Maybe when full fares at 16 were introduced, it was common for vast majority to have left school and be in paid employment. That is no longer the case.

Dungeon it's not reducing cars it's increasing cars. Councils and bus companies struggle to top up the grant they get( they don't get the full amount) companies put up prices and those people priced out use cars. It's a vicious circle.