To think children should be free on buses the same as OAPs

[P3onyPenny]

Our bus company used to charge £7 for a 10 mile adult ticket and £1 each for children which wasn't too bad. The £1 child ticket has now been scrapped and I've just paid £18 for me and 3 dc to travel 10 miles. I think that is extortionate. The Park and Ride is always filled by office workers and city parking is extortionate. I don't always have access to a car. During the holidays the bus was always full with a variety of ages and several children. Now it only appears to be OAPs on it. We were literally the only non OAPs travelling,I presume due to the cost. We live in a fairly rural area,our library is rarely open( unlike the city one) and we don't have the city shops or many amenities such as cinema,sports centre,big shops etc.

We'll just organise ourselves so I can drive into town,pay the extortionate parking and add to the congestion. Other families not so fortunate won't be able to do this and to be honest environmentally I don't think it should be encouraged anyway.

My parents have a brand new car and are far better off than us. It just seems daft that they get bus transport free and kids who don't have any income don't.

AIBU to think oap bus passes should be means tested with the money saved funding a child bus pass scheme? At the very least just for the holidays or even £1 a ticket scheme like Stagecoach ran before.

It's nuts isn't it. To get me and three kids to a hospital appointment before 9.30 the other week was also 18 quid, and that's including one free under 5. The difference is that it's only 2 miles away!!! It's daylight robbery. And then they wonder why the city where we live is gridlocked by cars.

What one zoo does is like a 20% discount for using public transport. More things like that would be good.
I think eden project does a discount too.

The point is many OAPs don't need it and many kids need it more.

Do you have anything of substance to back this up? Your assertion seems to be based on how it benefits you, not actual facts.

Are you aware of all the cuts to local government finances? You must be, surely no one could miss them. Where do you suggest the council finds the money to fund free travel for children? Most can't provide adequate social care for those in desperate need, should bus passes be a priority?

I'm not against free travel, but if you want to take this further you need to suggest realistic solutions. So far I've not seen any.

This is a big bug bear of mine. I'd happily forgo my car and have done in the past to use public transport. But it's cheaper to drive, including parking and petrol costs. It used to cost me £9 for a journey with my dc for about 1mile. Ridiculous. Same as trains.

AIBU to think oap bus passes should be means tested with the money saved funding a child bus pass scheme?

For fairness one would then expect the children's fares to be means tested too!

The thing is with children they are reliant on parents.If parents don’t qualify but don’t have the cash the child will miss out. That kid can’t get into the library on their own.Bit like funding uni.During the hols needing to use the bus several days is ludicrous for even non fsm families.

There is also an environmental issue. Buses need to be cheaper than cars, everybody will try and save money, even the wealthier. 2 oaps paying a subsidised bus fare instead of free will still save money on parking.Unless you make all kids free buses are never going to be cheaper for people travelling with children.

Bomb how do you know none of my suggestions would work? What every single one, you know exactly for definite how each and every one wouldn’t work? How? And why do I need to have the answers before taking things forward?I don’t work in councils or gov. I don’t know all the ins and outs, others are paid to do so. How do you know there isn’t a way to sort this? Think suggesting not complaining about anything unless you have a cast iron fully informed solution is a little dangerous. Nobody would complain about anything.

Free public transport for all would be brilliant....but someone has to pay. Public transport providers are private companies and their shareholders want profit, not unreasonably.
The public purse could pay but what would be cut to cover costs? Child safeguarding teams? Midwifery services? Libraries? Highways maintenance?
There is a popularist view that if you can’t afford children, don’t have so many. I’m not sure I subscribe to that but benefits have to be finite. The argument about some pensioners being able to afford bus fares applies equally to many families.

In Glasgow (this summer at least, not sure about other times) two children could go free on an adult ticket.

But who could afford to pay that amount on a 10 mile bus journey?Seriously. I simply can't justify it. We won't ever be using the bus again,it's so much cheaper to drive. There was nobody on that bus other than OAPs and us.

2 OAPs paying a subsidised fare and adults paying full fare would surely fund a good wack. You could then top it up from the environment budget.

Bomb how do you know none of my suggestions would work?

Because the reasoning you have based your arguments on is flawed.

Local authorities have no spare funds. You don't need to have an in depth knowledge of local government funding to know that.

It is not cost effective to means test the older person's bus pass. Research has been done into means testing the Winter Fuel Allowance and it would cost more than it saves. That is based on exactly the same principle as the pass.

Moan all you want, but don't expect to get anywhere if you don't provide solutions. If you can't be bothered to do that, why should someone else?

You could then top it up from the environment budget.

What would you cut to accommodate this expense?

Because others are paid and educated to do so,I am not.

To your last point-other measures attempting to cut city pollution could be targeted to fund free bus passes for children.

They will have to do something as city centres will fold if families are priced out. That will mean job and thus tax loss.I do most of my shopping online now,it will need to increase. I could have bought each of my dc a book on Amazon cheaper than it cost to go to the library or Waterstones.

I think - and I may be completely wrong here - that the free travel in London for children is funded by money from the congestion charge drivers in London pay? Out in the rest of the non - city UK bus services are being cut and cut. Some places have lost their bus routes completely or they have been reduced to things like 3 a day instead of one an hour etc. This is because the vast majority of passengers are those pesky old folks and their free passes. The government can not afford to keep giving the bus companies more money to make up the fact that the bus companies aren't making enough money to pay their drivers. Not everything can be free. Society would be great if it could but simply it can't. A big moan in my (Midlands medium size) home town is that drivers have to pay in the 'council run' car parks. I don't understand the complaint in this. The car parks need to be kept maintained and clean etc - who will fund that if parking is free? All tax payers? But then surely me as a non driver should get my bus fare free? Yes? No?
However.....it is expensive to take buses especially when taking a bundle of kids. And it's not like you could leave your 9 year old at home alone while you pop to town these days. Gotta drag the kids with you. I do believe children should have to pay a fare (under fives have always been free so keep that ) however is needs to be cheaper than it sometimes is. Perhaps a basic charge of £1 or £2 which gives you an all day ticket (often called Day Riders) by a lot of bus companies. Obviously there would have to be distance variations for ticket prices . It's a tough one.

Because others are paid and educated to do so,I am not.

It's not going to benefit them, why should they put effort into finding a solution when you can't even cover the basics?

To your last point-other measures attempting to cut city pollution could be targeted to fund free bus passes for children.

What other measures? Are they not effective, or should they be scrapped because the free/ subsidised travel suits you better?

They will have to do something as city centres will fold if families are priced out.

Your assertions are not based in reality. On your own admission if you didn't get the bus then you'd drive, and even if children don't go into the city it is full of the people that have used the (so popular it's full) park and ride.

You're going to embarrass yourself if you try to take this further based on your current (fundamentally flawed) assertions. Put some thought into the matter before contacting the council or your MP.

It's shocking op, and I agree that the free bus pass scheme should be means tested. Maybe limited to those on pension credit.
Around here children aged between 5 and 16 pay 75% of the adult fare. Gone are the days of half price bus travel for children.

Has anyone mentioned that a ten mile trip is quite easily cycled, especially in a nice rural area. No bus charges, nor parking charges, healthy exercise. Benefits of living in the countryside.

Because they are paid to do so,I am not.

We will only go in if absolutely necessary as the car park is also extortionate albeit cheaper but traffic is a nightmare.

Workers clogging up the park and Ride don't go into town to work let alone shop. As I said they get off 1 stop off on the outskirts and walk back to the trading estate.

To the previous poster a £1 charge is reasonable as is highly subsidised OAPs fares and full price working adult.

The London Freedom Pass scheme began in the early 1970s, and was funded by GLC, the. Boroughs, and I think it's back with the Mayor again. No specific link to the congestion charge revenue.

It's a huge negotiation every time the deal comes up for renewal

Walking my dh sometimes does it but on back roads and woods which are very hilly as main dual carriage way way too dangerous. He has had a couple of near misses on the backroad. He has a decent bike fit for the job and is experienced. 3 x hybrid road/ mountain bikes aren't cheap and I wouldn't want them doing it alone. Couldn't carry stuff back,he leaves his laptop.I couldn't do it and neither could one of my dc.

I think a £1 flat rate day ticket for oap's would be an ideal solution.

I agree and for kids. Even my kids with their paltry pocket money could afford £1. I could have afforded a full adult and 3x£1, the exorbitant amount I paid today not so much.

Has anyone mentioned that a ten mile trip is quite easily cycled, especially in a nice rural area.

It's dangerous enough driving some of the rural roads around here, there is absolutely no way I would allow any of my kids to cycle those roads!

It's shocking op, and I agree that the free bus pass scheme should be means tested. Maybe limited to those on pension credit.

That would be unfair to pensioners who only got a state pension. Less then £2 more a week, but have to pay for buses :/

Its £280 a year for a bus pass to get to and from school here. I think this should be free.