unhappy with dissertation result

[sunshineNdaisies]

Okay so I realise I probably am, but hear me out and I want some inside into how the grading might work as I was last in education about 15 years ago.

I've just submitted a postgraduate masters research dissertation and got a provisional grade of 65%. It goes to the external examiner and I'm not sure what the likelihood of it being increased is? Because tbh I was hoping for a higher grade, a distinction.

The reasoning for this is that my original supervisor kept telling me I would definitely get a distinction, and that if I wanted to progress onto a PHD, then I needed a distinction grade. Throughout my course, she kept telling me what a high standard my work was, encouraged me to present at conferences, submit articles etc. Her area of research is similar to mine.

She went on sick leave in April though, and I had another supervisor who I felt was much more strict and nitpicky but I took her advice on board, thinking it's good to get different opinions after all. Her area of research is not in my area but is almost identical to another student (who we will call E) and I understand that E got a lot of information and resources from the new supervisor to help with her own research.

New supervisor said that whilst the dissertation had to be between 15,000 to 17,000 words, it was okay to be a few hundred words over. I was 50 words over.

Anyway, long story short. I got 65% provision and E says she got "an A" which will be anything from 70%. I feel pretty disappointed as I think the fact she had the same topic area as our supervisor and had additional support from that supervisor played a part.

I feel angry that I was led to believe by the original supervisor that I would get a distinction and then I do not. The original supervisor did not give me any materials etc despite having a similar research area, unlike the new supervisor with E. I just felt that the original supervisor actually understood what I was doing better.

In addition, it was a 2 year course, but 3 of us submitted a year early. All of us have full time jobs and kids. I'm also disabled. I just feel that I put more work in and had to struggle more than the others.

Can anyone advise on whether the external examiner is likely to increase my grade? Do you think my new supervisor was wrong to say it was okay to go slightly over my word count and would that have played a part in my grade? I submitted my dissertation a month before the deadline but E told us she was still writing it on the last day of submission.

I've got this desire to prove myself I must admit, I've always felt I wasn't good enough and I had gotten my hopes up of a distinction as a means to prove to myself and those who bully me in work etc that I am good enough.

Can anyone make me feel any better?

Firstly that is a very good mark, well done. Supervisors cant really be accurate about grades, some marking might be subjective. I very much doubt if you were penalised for being such a small amount over words. After such an effort to produce this work, there is bound to be a little bit of a downer, especially if you were hoping for more. Instead of looking what you might have got, think about what you have achieved, which is bloody good

It sounds like the issue is the misleading feedback you got and lack fo constructive criticism. They usually allow 10% over the word count in my experience, so 50 words is nothing.

I work as a postgraduate programme administrator at a UK university, and unfortunately, from my experience, the marks don’t usually change when they are considered by an external examiner. The EE usually ensures that your work has been fairly marked and is at postgraduate level.

You can ask for feedback from both the first and second marker as this will help you see where you have lost marks.

I can't imagine the 50 words over would matter.

Extern is unlikely to up the mark unless it's very poorly marked. Not being overly familiar with your area of research wouldn't prevent a fair and accurate marking unless, for example, the supervisor was mainly familiar with qualitative techniques and your research was heavily quantitative.

Submitting a month early vs submitting on the day is irrelevant.

I would suggest making an appointment with the supervisor and asking why you didn't get a distinction.

The external examiner will give it the grade they believe it deserves. They don’t see the previous grade (at least, they shouldn’t to avoid bias).

The grade is not about how hard you worked. It is the end result that counts. If you aren’t happy with the external grade, perhaps speak to your original supervisor to find out what she based her assessment on, if anything changed, and there is a chance to appeal.

Thank you Element. I'm now thinking maybe I should have written more words :(

Do you get feedback automatically or do you need to ask for it?

Last time I was at university was 15 years ago and I did not do a dissertation then.

An extra note - it depends on what type of review the EE does as to whether they see the original mark or not.

Dissertation marking is really quite subjective (I’m an academic) as they are all so different. But I’d be surprise if the EE bumped you up enough for a first. Many of the things you are raising are impressive (you’ve clearly had a lot of challenges) but TBH irrelevant to the mark. Once it is marked it’s very difficult/impossible to claim special circumstances. You needed to raise these issues with supervision etc before you submitted.

In my dept external examiners don’t/aren’t able to intervene with individual marks. They simply ensure that the marking criteria have been applied correctly and consistently across the board and that the marking process is fair and rigorous.

You almost certainly won’t be able to appeal on the grounds of academic judgement (ie you disagree with the mark awarded), not on the grounds that you put more work than others in. 50 words over also won’t make a difference either way.

65 is a great result, esp at MA level, so you should be proud of that.

I don’t think writing more words would have made a difference to be honest.

Usually after an examination board has met to agree and ratify results, I would then release feedback to students. It would be worth waiting for this as until the exam board meet, your results are provisional. I would also advise you to request for feedback from the EE as they do make comments on research projects.

It is worth noting, your dissertation will have been marked by a first and second marker. It the marks are greater than a 5% difference, this is then referred on to a third marker.

Isn't this a case of your being marked by someone who just reads your work, you wasted 30 days by summitting early, and now the mark isn't the one you wanted you are looking for people to blame..
You did brilliantly, just accept that, as no matter what you do nothing will Change your mark.

I don't think you've anything to lose by appealing your mark if this is possible?

We'll done on a good mark despite challenges...

But I suspect the early submission is pretty irrelevant.

Is there any road you can go down re mitigation because of your disability? Could you resubmit? . As you'd been led to believe you'd get a distinction?

Do you need distinction for further study? If so, I would push some more..

Marking is extremely subjective...

Your circumstances, and things like submitting before the deadline vs on the day etc. have no bearing on your respective marks. It’s difficult to say whether you’d have got a distinction had the other supervisor stayed. You’ll know as well as anyone that dissertations, particularly at masters level, aren’t just about writing to get the marks, and that there’s no set mark scheme that says do this and get this many marks for it.

I don’t think writing more would necessarily have helped. At that length, a couple of hundred words isn’t really enough to make a huge difference. As to whether the 50 words over was an issue, you need to check you dissertation handbook/with your department. Whilst I would personally think it unlikely that you’ve been penalised for being 50 words over, I have known some word limits be given as a single figure with a 10% margin (i.e. 10,000 plus or minus 10%), but I have also known them be given as ranges, with no leeway outside that range (9,000-11,000, for example). You would need to check as it varies.

All of that said, managing a dissertation in the circumstances you have, and getting 65, which is a very good mark, is really truly an achievement, and I hope you can feel proud of that.

The external is there to review the work of a sample of candidates. In my experience it is rare for an external to alter marks and if they do the rule at my place of work is that the entire cohort must be looked at.

Sadly some people undertake work that is very close to their supervisors interests and others do not. I do not supervise students in my area particularly but the view in my dept is that you are supervising a process. Colleagues who know a subject area well are not necessarily the best supervisors and vice versa. I have had students be very unhappy with the supervision process (I oversee all dissertations in my dept) and sadly it's common but rarely on proper grounds. A supervisor should not be suggesting a mark at any point - it creates a whole host of issues and if I get wind of it I speak to the colleague concerned. You feel you were deserving of a mark but the reality is a qualified academic did not award that mark.

My colleagues and I hate it when students challenge a mark based on effort and their view.
It is really disrespectful unless there is proper reasoning ie procedure wasn't followed etc, not liking a mark is not enough. I am not meaning to sound unsympathetic but a mark is not (unless some allocation is specifically made in the marking criteria) for effort. If it was I'd have lots of lovely very hard working but not the strongest academic students getting an A.

I assume your university has a double marking process for dissertation and a moderation process so the mark is unlikely to have been decided by one person and assuming it was selected for moderation (we have a minimum of 12 to be reviewed) then the consistency of marks has been verified. In relation to your issue about being over the word count, we have a very clear policy which is published in our academic regulations. If it's over 10% then we cap the mark. The word count should also be clearly stipulated in the assessment specification not just made up. Any cap on a mark has to be clearly noted on the feedback sheet where I am. I'd check what your regulations are here if you have concerns.

Regarding your other comment about when you and the other person handed in. A deadline is a deadline provided they were on time then it makes no difference. Again we don't award marks for being early. I'd strongly advise against it. If you finish with a significant amount of time to spare, use it to review and format properly. Academics have different views on many things but we mark to a criteria and unless that's not been followed there is nothing that can be done. I know it's not what you wanted to hear but that would be the bottom line at my workplace. I love looking after the dissertation but we cannot please everyone and I know it's hard. Watching people graduate who have kicked off as they're not happy with their marks on no grounds really takes the shine off it for me. Don't let a little bit of disappointment ruin it for you. You've done well. Just enjoy it.

It took me a long time to get to where I am and had many of the feelings you do now. You are good enough. Believe it. Xx

65 is a very strong mark. If your MA is weighted in a certain way, you may still get a distinction so long as the average is over 70%.
I do feel, however, that to request remarks and claim supervisors are wrong etc, is in somewhat bad taste. I have studied with people who demanded remarks because they felt the marker was unfair, etc.
You cannot be reassured you will definitely get a distinction particularly when you are marked twice anyway. Of course someone else's opinion gives more credibility so the mark isn't based just on one person but two people.
If I were you I would be proud of what you achieved and accept it with grace. I know loads of people who got PhD studentships with a merit.

Sorry for your disappointment. 65 is a good mark and shouldn't preclude you from applying for a PhD, so long as your profile is generally in the B range or upwards, though an A would be preferable, obviously. It sounds as though you've done very well, given your circumstances.

As for whether an external will bump it up, where I am that would also be highly unlikely. Like others have said, dissertations are normally double-marked, without knowing what your counterpart has given you.

Do wait and see what the feedback says, to see what you can learn from it. Check your university regulations, but most will not allow an appeal, unless on administrative grounds.

Scope for academic appeals is always limited, it needs to be far more than you disagreeing or wanting a higher mark. There's nothing unusual about a predicted 70% coming in at 65%, whilst it feels a big deal to you it is within 10% so not unexpected.

Mitigating circumstances ideally would have been submitted before submission, and would only have been accepted if they were something unexpected. Your family situation is irrelevant, and your disability only relevant if (for instance) you had a particular flare up close to submission. Even in that circumstance you're too late to submit evidence now.

I can't see that they'd allow you to resubmit. Your mark is a pass, and a good one at that.

If you want to do your PhD then speak to the course leader. A distinction is not always essential.

I am totally shocked that you have not read your course manual/guide to see about word counts and being penalized for going over. It is typically 10% and that same manual would have also told you about the standard layouts required and what to do to avoid losing marks. I knew my MA manual inside and out by the end of my course.

Also, you are being totally and utterly silly by relying on your tutor saying you will get a Distinction. They have no possible idea of knowing that until the work has been written, submitted and graded. It is one thing to say you are capable of that level of work, but obviously things could bring it down. Things like not reading your course handbook etc and not even knowing basics about your course grading, how its weighted, what the boundaries are for being bumped up a grade, will always count against you.

To get a distinction, you would have needed to get a distinction in a good few modules (if not all) and very high 60s in the rest. Then your final piece needs to be above 70 to have that conferred on you. I am fully expecting to get a merit as all of my work was in the 60 range and while i think my final piece may be a distinction grade, it wont make any difference to my final mark. But I can still say that I got a distinction in that module! So all is not lost. Just be proud of what you have achieved. It will rob your joy if you start saying oh but it was because i'm disabled, I had a bad week, their tutor was better. By all means make a complaint if you feel it is warranted but don't dwell on it. And btw, I am disabled too. my attendance was 60% and tbh honest I was totally able of distinction level work but am still more than happy with what I will get.

Thank you all. It was only a dissertation top up module. I got the post grad diploma 15 years ago where my grades were a mixture of in the 60s and 50s percentage wise, I got one in the 70s.

I would very much like to do a PHD but not right now due to the cost and time involved, but I had hoped to maximise my chances.

Trying to decide now whether to graduate in absentia or not. It's really just a 2 min walk up, shake hands, walk off isnt it?

I think you have had some excellent advice from previous posters. You have achieved an excellent mark for your dissertation. However I think this should be a lesson in not handing in early. The course will be two years in length with the dissertation being one of the last submissions for a reason. One of which being giving the learner time to develop and therefore produce a better dissertation. Your supervisor should have never said to you that your work was definitely distinction level. The role of the supervisor is to facilitate your work not discuss your mark. Sorry you feel unhappy - However as others have said if you have been scoring 70plus in other modules then a distinction is still possible.

I got a distinction for my masters, throughout the entire course I’d never got a 50. I had one assignment that was low 60’s, it was a module I didn’t like. And everything else was either high 60’s with the majority above 70, even my dissertation, and some in the 80’s which pulled up my low 60m I hope this makes sense. I think this could be where your problem lies, any 50’s you got for the diploma are pulling your grade down for your masters top up. You definitely won’t have been penalised for 50 words over. Distinctions at masters level are consistent high percentages throughout.

In addition, it was a 2 year course, but 3 of us submitted a year early. All of us have full time jobs and kids. I'm also disabled. I just feel that I put more work in and had to struggle more than the others.

Presumably the other students were doing other modules (180 credits) over those two years, whereas you did only one (60 credits)?

I think the idea of not graduating is feeling sorry for yourself to be honest. You are robbing yourself of your own achievement. I get it, I'm a perfectionist too, but really, the only person who will suffer by not going is you.
I think you need to give yourself time to process the disappointment, before realising how well you've done. It's almost like you think because you don't have a distinction, you may as well hadn't bothered. I also think, quite understandably, that you are jealous of E and feel she had an advantage over you by her supervisor drip feeding her information for her dissertation. Yet you yourself say how strict she seemed. I think if anything, your original supervisor has set you up for disappointment here.
Please realise how well you have done. 65 is a solid mark, you have done well. Go to the graduation.

65 is a merit, there’s absolutely nothing to be upset at about that!