unhappy with dissertation result

[sunshineNdaisies]

Okay so I realise I probably am, but hear me out and I want some inside into how the grading might work as I was last in education about 15 years ago.

I've just submitted a postgraduate masters research dissertation and got a provisional grade of 65%. It goes to the external examiner and I'm not sure what the likelihood of it being increased is? Because tbh I was hoping for a higher grade, a distinction.

The reasoning for this is that my original supervisor kept telling me I would definitely get a distinction, and that if I wanted to progress onto a PHD, then I needed a distinction grade. Throughout my course, she kept telling me what a high standard my work was, encouraged me to present at conferences, submit articles etc. Her area of research is similar to mine.

She went on sick leave in April though, and I had another supervisor who I felt was much more strict and nitpicky but I took her advice on board, thinking it's good to get different opinions after all. Her area of research is not in my area but is almost identical to another student (who we will call E) and I understand that E got a lot of information and resources from the new supervisor to help with her own research.

New supervisor said that whilst the dissertation had to be between 15,000 to 17,000 words, it was okay to be a few hundred words over. I was 50 words over.

Anyway, long story short. I got 65% provision and E says she got "an A" which will be anything from 70%. I feel pretty disappointed as I think the fact she had the same topic area as our supervisor and had additional support from that supervisor played a part.

I feel angry that I was led to believe by the original supervisor that I would get a distinction and then I do not. The original supervisor did not give me any materials etc despite having a similar research area, unlike the new supervisor with E. I just felt that the original supervisor actually understood what I was doing better.

In addition, it was a 2 year course, but 3 of us submitted a year early. All of us have full time jobs and kids. I'm also disabled. I just feel that I put more work in and had to struggle more than the others.

Can anyone advise on whether the external examiner is likely to increase my grade? Do you think my new supervisor was wrong to say it was okay to go slightly over my word count and would that have played a part in my grade? I submitted my dissertation a month before the deadline but E told us she was still writing it on the last day of submission.

I've got this desire to prove myself I must admit, I've always felt I wasn't good enough and I had gotten my hopes up of a distinction as a means to prove to myself and those who bully me in work etc that I am good enough.

Can anyone make me feel any better?

'This really pisses me off. Very few people find a Masters degree easy. If you graduated 15 years ago you're old enough to know that life isn't about effort and whining that you tried harder than others unfairly puts them down and will turn those who support you against you.'

I would have put this a lot more nicely, but essentially I agree. There's something a bit millennial about this complaint - a sense of entitlement to something because you think you should have it. You also seem very focused on comparison with others - you seem to think both that you deserved a better mark than E and that she didn't deserve hers because she got more help. When you speak about feeling inadequate compared to your best friend it becomes apparent that this is quite an entrenched way of thinking for you. I do think working out what's going on there would be helpful. What are you trying to prove about yourself, and who to?

b) submitted a month early

I'd forgotten that bit cory, you're right - there would be (almost) no chance of a mit circs-based successful appeal at my university if a student submitted a month early.

My dissertation mark actually went up 10 marks after going to the external examiner.

At my university, externals don't alter individual marks. This is why none of us can give the OP advice on specifics - it varies by university. The OP needs to read their own faculty/university regulations.

Similar circumstances happened to me after I submitted my undergraduate dissertation. First and second marker could not agree, so it went to a third marker who awarded a mark somewhere between the first and second marker's. Finally, the EE looked at it and, I was told, recommended a higher mark. It went up by another two marks. Ultimately, it was still lower than I had been expecting and I was disappointed so I do understand how you feel. Years later, I went on to do an MA and achieved a distinction in my dissertation and overall which did help to erase some of the disappointment. Don't let it stop you from applying for PhDs. Good luck OP.

I'm another postgraduate administrator who has sat through many, many exam boards. Firstly, it sounds like your first supervisor was very irresponsible promising you a distinction. How could they possibly know? 50 words over a word limit is nothing, we normally allow 10%, but don't advertise the fact. I can't imagine that's got anything to do with it. Are you sure you need a distinction to go on to a PhD? My uni is one of the pickiest in the country, and we don't have a hard and fast rule about PhD students needing a particular grade at Master's level. Just a pass would do technically, and a Merit would be absolutely fine, so please don't give up on pursuing the PhD if that's what you want.

And finally, 65% is a good, solid mark. Well done!

And to answer the other part of your question, marks can change at the exam board, usually at the suggestion of the external examiner. It's fairly exceptional, though.

Firstly, it sounds like your first supervisor was very irresponsible promising you a distinction

Hmmmm, I wonder if this is a case of a tutor saying one thin, and a student hearing something else? it's not unknown to happen ...

Good point, @OhtheHillsareAlive

marks can change at the exam board, usually at the suggestion of the external examiner. It's fairly exceptional, though

Entirely depends on the university. Regulations don't permit this at mine.

I didn't mishear. She told me I was on track for a distinction and that it was a distinction I needed if I ever wanted to do a PHD. In addition, when she met our group of 3, she told us that we would all get 'at least' a merit pass. E got an 'A' (not sure of percentage), I got 65%, and another student who we will call P, got 62%.

I don't think submitting early gave me a lower mark. I spent a lot of time proof reading, editing etc and I submitted several drafts to both supervisors to check over, as did the other students, except E also got given resources, books, essays and the new supervisors contacts.

My dissertation was the only quantitative one out of all the students due to the geographical spread of my research subjects.

I did read the handbook, thanks, and the grading criteria. I just wanted some clarification and support.

I think I'd be happier with my result if I hadn't had my hopes raised by my previous supervisor, who incidentally, kept sending me PHD information also.

It is very very hard as a disabled person to not only enter the workforce but to progress upwards. Leaving for another job is also not easy because as soon as they find out your disabilities and needs, they are not interested in either interviewing you or recruiting you. So I do have this need to prove my ability.

My DSA did not come through until half way through the course although my supervisors did their best to help anyway.

She told me I was on track for a distinction

That is what it means "on track" - not that you're definitely going to get a Distinction, or that you are promised one.

Given your other difficulties, she may well have been trying to buoy you up, boost your confidence by indicating what she thought you are capable of. But "on track" is not a promise or a guarantee.

You should stop comparing yourself with other students. You're all different, doing different work, with different abilities and challenges.

At my university., entry to a PhD programme is assessed by a number of things: UG degree result, Masters degree result, the PhD proposal, and a face-to-face interview. The minimum is a 2, i, a "good" Masters (which a Merit certainly is), and a proposal which demonstrates you can think, and you can write. You've probably got all of those necessities.

If you want to go for Research Council funding, you may not be competitive with a merit rather than a Distinction but to be frank, your other marks in your MA would also work against you in a funding competition. It's not just based on one result.

Your supervisors sound as though they've supervised you well - you should stop bitching about them & your fellow students.

To be brutal, your current attitude does not bode well for your ability to survive a PhD, however high your marks are, or however talented you are. Your tendency towards an entitled attitude ("It's not fair!") won't go down well in a PhD programme.

But more importantly, it doesn't serve you - are you happier by blaming your supervisors or your fellow student? Does it make you feel better? I doubt it - comparison is the thief of joy, as they say.

Look after yourself: give yourself a break about this. Stop beating yourself up. 65% for a dissertation is an excellent mark. It brings your total up considerably, and shows that you are capable of excellent independent research. THat's what will get you into a PhD programme.

Im sorry but your initial disappointment is sounding like bitterness which leaves a nasty taste. Your jealousy of E is misplaced. A masters student does not and should not need giving resources and contacts. And, the diss is not marked on those. Distinction standard is for analysis, originality of thought and perfect presentation. You nearly had that getting 65.
About being disabled, i am also disabled and an academic. Doesnt mean youre entitled to the best marks as sympathy or because life is harder for you. Life is what it is.
The limitations you face are down to your attitude not your disability. Inferiority and envy are coming across in every post. In the best possible way, get over yourself, celebrate your achievement, forget E, and move on.

"She told me I was on track for a distinction"

Telling somebody they are on track for a distinction before the dissertation is finished is not the same as promising a distinction. I was on the track to the end of the village just now, but I didn't quite make it.

I think we can all agree that your supervisor seems to have expressed herself very carelessly and that she should not have done that, but ultimately the responsibility for making sure your work is of a high standard rests with you, not with the supervisor.

I am slightly surprised at your insistence that another 30 days would not have made any difference. Really? No extra thoughts, no deepening of your analysis, no sharpening of your argument? Nothing that could have been improved at all? I don't think I have ever felt that way about a work of mine and I've been in the business for 25 years.

You do seem to have a very passive attitude towards something that is supposed to establish your suitability for training as an independent researcher: E got given this, my supervisor told me that, my supervisor didn't find anything that needed changing.

I do understand your disappointment, but Spec Cons is about helping students to ensure their disability does not prevent them from doing the work, not to grade work already produced differently because somebody has had a hard life.

Either your disability does get in the way of completing on time and then you need to make the most of any support/extra time you can get, or it does not get in the way and then it is irrelevant for your grade. It is not possible to have a grading system where we actually accept lower quality from disabled students.

So what does your handbook say about the word count?

I just wanted some clarification and support.

OP, you can't get clarification from us because all these issues are dealt with differently in different universities. The only thing that's common to all universities, as far as I know, is that appeals against academic judgement are not allowed.

Have you talked to your student union? If not, you really should - it's by far the best place to get clarification of the kind you want.

And 65 is a good mark at MA level, by the way, so congratulations. Please don't let the fact that you wanted a distinction spoil what you've achieved.

Nothing that could have been improved at all? I don't think I have ever felt that way about a work of mine and I've been in the business for 25 years

Ditto. And I've been doing this for 35 years oh god how did I get to be 60?

I'm usually overall pretty confident about my research - but the 5 minutes before I stand up to give a conference paper, even my best work turns to dust & ashes in my head.

And 30 days to work on a draft! Bliss - one could truly re-envision the work (not just check the spelling) and make it better & better.

and I submitted several drafts to both supervisors to check over

While I don't wish to get unnecessarily picky about your posts, I do think 'check over' is a telling choice of words. This implies you expected your supervisor to catch all problems, make corrections for you and so on - this simply isn't their role.

I think the point needs to be made that distinctions at masters level are RARE ie exceptional.
Not like getting a first which is loads easier.

While I don't wish to get unnecessarily picky about your posts, I do think 'check over' is a telling choice of words. This implies you expected your supervisor to catch all problems, make corrections for you and so on - this simply isn't their role.

This.

And it's particularly worrying in someone who is hoping to go on to a PhD.

except E also got given resources, books, essays

I raised an eyebrow at this. At Masters level you should surely be capable of finding all of the resources you need yourself, and if you absolutely can't, should be capable of asking for guidance.

"I don't think submitting early gave me a lower mark. I spent a lot of time proof reading, editing etc and I submitted several drafts to both supervisors to check over, as did the other students, except E also got given resources, books, essays and the new supervisors contacts"

I'm confused by this. I've studied at three universities and a supervisor would not read full drafts unless it's PhD and before submission. They did read an outline, a chapter, the literature review or 10% of the total, but they were not supposed to give feedback beyond that, because it's independent work and part of the task is to develop research skills (i.e. avoid being spoon-fed). Is this different at your university? I struggle to think that nothing else could be added or edited in a month, though. I could always improve my submissions with more time. I wish I could have locked it away a week or two and then have the chance to edit for a further two weeks!

What Larry said.

There's something a bit millennial about this complaint

That's rather offensive to "millennials". I hate that attitude. Besides, the OP must be at least (18+3+2+16) 39 years old...

To clarify:

my original supervisor regularly said "on track", "definitely get", "no reason why not" etc.

My handbook says 10% over then a penalty. However, the written guidance for my course was 15,000 to 17,000 words. I was 17,050 words. My supervisor said going a few hundred over the 17,000 would be okay but I don't feel I can trust her guidance anymore. There is inconsistency between what she says and the handbook / result.

My annoyance with E is not so much with her mark, its the fact she got given additional help that we weren't supposed to get. Yes, you are all correct, it's meant to be independent. I may have had several checks over, but I still sourced my own books, material, research subjects etc. Her dissertation (from what I could ascertain from her academic poster) is identical to new supervisor's PHD, down to the dissertation title.

I started my dissertation / course in September and was finished the first draft by April. I spent the next two months editing, cutting down the word count, reading and re reading, getting fellow students and colleagues in the field to check over, asking my supervisor to check the final draft (which she offered to do for everyone, she just didn't give me any material like she did for E). I have worked in this field for 15 years since getting my postgrad in the subject. I know my particular topic inside and out so was happy with my final submission.

I'm happy with my result, I just feel I would have been happier if a, my hopes hadn't been raised by my 1st supervisor and b, E hadn't been so blatantly favoured by supervisor 2.

Apparently the next stage is that the dissertations go to an External Examiner and then agreed by a subject panel. Not sure what this means as the handbook only mentions an external examiner.

PS I've been mentioned on the university twitter account (Not just the course twitter) as "an excellent effort and hard word by sunshineNdaisies in just 8 months". That's the twitter feed for the whole sodding university so yes...see why I got my hopes up??