At my wits end with bedtime, please please help.

[brokeandsad]

I'm shamelessly posting here for traffic. I don't know what to do and I'm tearing my hair out.

We have a son who will soon be three. We moved house almost two weeks ago. Apart from the first few night, which were fine, bed time has become hell and both DS and I usually end up crying, shouting and completely drained by it.

DS avoids sleep at all costs. He brushes his teeth etc fine but as soon as we get to his bedroom he starts flailing around and laughing maniacally. We sometimes get as far as coaxing him into bed with a story, or even laying down and singing his usual bedtime song. Then he stars rearranging his covers, flinging himself around on the bed, throwing his pillow. No amount of talking him out of it or distraction helps. It's gone as far as him headbutting me in the nose and throwing books at me.

We've tried just walking out of his room and telling him we'll come back when he's ready to go to sleep. He either wails that there's no one in his room with him, or hurls all his toys down the stairs, starting with the soft ones and getting bigger and heavier, until the other night he managed to pull out a fairly big wooden block that props up his toy shelves and hurled it down stairs hitting the dog on the head.

I'm completely at the end of my tether. I am so patient and calm with him for such a long time, but inevitably I end up losing my shit and shouting at him, and then immediately feel awful for it and sorry for him and the whole horrible cycle starts again. I'm in tears most nights. I now genuinely dread evenings. We went upstairs to bed tonight at 7 and now at ten to nine he's finally exhausted himself and given in.

Prior to moving his bedtime routine was good and he usually went to sleep quite quickly and slept all night. This was hard won. Since he was a baby he has fought sleep at all costs. At 4 or 5 months old he would twitch or shake a finger, a foot, his head, anything to keep himself awake. We never did controlled crying but it did take a lot of work and patience to get into a good habit.

It must be the move that's done it. Maybe he's anxious about his new surroundings. We did all the things we read we were supposed to. Talked about his lovely new bedroom, got him involved in choosing things for it. Got it mostly set up before we actually moved all our stuff in so he could see it and new what it looked like, you name it.

We've just moved house, which is stressful enough. I've not long started a new job which demands a lot of personal emotional energy and is quite high pressure. I haven't had much time off over the move. I'm completely exhausted. I've just finished a long spell of therapy with a Clinical Psychologist for PTSD. My DH is working weekends to make some extra cash. There's no let up.

I know he's two and it's not his fault and he's unsettled etc. But I am all out of ideas and barely keeping my grip on anything.

Sorry for the ramble. Please, I'm not usually a fan of parenting advice but I will take anything right now.

Supernanny bedtime technic. Aka rapid return.

Do you spend any time in his room that's not at bedtime? So he becomes a bit more familiar with it?

A great tip someone gave me was to lie down on your child's bed and see how their room looked from that position. In case anything might be causing weird shapes or shadows.

Good luck. It's bloody hard when they don't sleep but you've managed it before. And you'll do it again. Deep breaths x

Would it help at all to get him out and running around as much as possible during the day? Make sure he's physically tired before bed?

Throw him outside for one last blast on a trampoline or similar then bedtime routine. Stairgate on his room so he can't cause damage and harm.

Agree with PP rapid return, consistency is your friend - good luck.

How on Earth do you allow it to escalate where he is throwing large toys down the stairs and hurting your poor dog? As soon as he is out of bed, take him back in. Repeat repeat repeat. He will eventually get the message and surely give up

I assume that he’s dropped his nap? If not, definitely time to drop it. Also, maybe start putting him to bed half an hour later if he’s not tired at that time

I would take everything out of his room that he could throw down the stairs and do the rapid return technique

I read they go way past tiredness if you miss the window of opportunity, they then get 'high'

I would go upstairs at 18.00pm.with him.

I used to take DD up at 18.45 at that age & she would be snoring by 18.55.

And she is a nightmare!

And when I say go up at that time, I mean up the stairs and straight into bed. Bath/teeth/wash & in PJs ect was all done prior to that.

OP. Sleep refusers are tough.

Can you do bribery / sticker chart etc?

And reinforce reinforce reinforce throughout the day what will happen at bedtime. Keep talking and role playing through the routine.

I am a fan of “I’ll be back to give you a kiss” - to begin with you go back really soon, like a minute, and then you gradually gradually increase the intervals. It’s a bit like rapid return but you’re returning to them, helping them feel safe.

He definitely gets "high" if he gets overtired. It's a trip switch, there's no shade of grey. He still has a nap because of this, but he is an early riser.

I'll look up rapid return.

We don't sit there while he's throwing heavy things down the stairs. We let a couple of soft toys go thinking 'don't reward the bad behaviour' until a block sailed past and clonked the poor dog.

He does have a stair gate across his door but sadly the position of his room, the stairs and his well honed throwing arm don't stop the antics.

We have been through this before but I was on mat leave then, not in the office at bloody 8.30am dealing with other people's shit all day!

We had similar when we moved with 3 year old DD.

We ending up bringing her bed into our room. It was the only way she’d go to sleep. We did try all the options but she was just so upset.

After a couple of months she got used to the new house and she wanted to sleep in her own room. I don’t think you can rush a little one if they are genuinely frightened.

I would remove the books etc from his room for the moment so at least he can't hurt anyone (and the dog) whilst you try and settle him.

You've had a lot of change: new home, new job for you OP and extra work for DH. I expect your DS will eventually settle but it may take some time to get used to all this change.

Is he able to tell you why he doesn't want to go to sleep? Interesting that he used to keep himself awake as a baby by twitching - have you spoken to a GP or HV about it as it may be an anxiety issue?

We have the hyper before bed thing- and thats always when we've just missed the window of sleepiness but not exhaustion. Second getting him to bed earlier.
Other things that work for us- telling a story about their day really quietly in the dark. Having a special toy so he's not alone. Def stairgate on door so he cant get to the stairs.
Does he have too many toys in his room?
Sometimes for the manic nights we just give a book and say look at that until you fall asleep.
No solutions, just some ideas and sympathy!

That sounds tough. You could look at gradual retreat or walk in walk out sleep training if you think he needs a bit of reassurance with the house move.

I hope it settles down soon.

Thank you for lots of sensible and practical suggestions. I feel a bit better just knowing it's not only us that experiences these things.

Christ parenthood is a killer. The second you think you've got something remotely sussed there's a bloody great spanner on the horizon!

You have my sympathies - I've been through similar, and it's rubbish! I ended up doing sleep training with DD right from the very start again, so sitting next to her and gradually moving closer to the door over the next few nights. She had a few wobbles, but she got there. It was caused by lots of upheaval - we moved house, changed her nursery, then my husband went away with work for a month. She was 2 at the time. I know what you mean about it affecting you emotionally - she's nearly 4 now and I was thinking the other day how my days are less shouty now we're both sleeping...

I reckon 3 nights of in bed by 18.00-18.30 & he will sleep 12 hours solid.

Sleep for us has been tricky at 3 without any big changes, it's a tough age for sensitive children. He sounds like a sensitive soul and he's been through a massive change, maybe he's just expressing his discomfort and needs to get it all out. Have you tried talking to him about whether the move has been hard for him? Acknowledging that he's finding bedtime tough? Not in the moment, but at a calm time. I don't think you need any tricks or charts. He does sound a bit over tired too though.

We had this for a while with DS, at much the same age. We made life easier for us all by moving bedtime much later for a week or so then brought it back by 5-10 minutes a night until we were back to 19:30. We figured if DS was still up at 21:00, we might as well all feel calm rather than fraught. It's not a method that would suit everyone but we were able to get our evening jobs done in relative peace before DS went to bed rather than spending an hour afterwards just trying to relax. Good luck.

Both DD and DS2 used to do that, it was caused by over tiredness. I'd have them in pj's a full hour before bedtime, bathed, teeth brushed, everything, then they had an hour of TV, then bed. It meant I didn't have to drag them round the bedroom to get their pj's on.

DD told me recently that she used to completely lose control and it scared her.

We had siimilar.
Our 3yo is very attached to his matchbox cars - favourite toys.
We told him every time he gets out of bed we are confiscating a car for a day. He quickly stopped.
It’s exhausting and infuriating

Sleep refusal is an absolute nightmare. My older one was terrible for it and my second one went through a stage of it. My first one I literally wanted to cry most nights and I’m afraid nothing really worked and now she’s older (9) she just takes herself to bed when she’s tired. It’s never what I wanted but the battle was too big and she just doesn’t seem to need much sleep. My second one (5) was going the same way but he needs sleep more than she does. One thing I did (and still sometimes do) is to do ‘jobs’ in his room, progressing to outside his room, to in my room, to downstairs etc. I’ll say, ‘ok you lie down now, I’m just going to do my jobs in your room.’ Potter around for 5 mins tidying etc. Then I might say, ‘ok now I’m going to do some jobs in my room, I can still see you though, so stay in bed nicely.’ Etc. Progressing to ‘ok I’m going downstairs to put some washing on, I’ll come back and check how nicely you’re sleeping in 10
Mins’. Usually after the first few ‘checks’ he’s asleep. Good luck, I massively feel for you!

Sorry you and your dh are completely over thinking this.

We had 5 kids. Ds 1 was your ds. Finally aged 16 months and literally almost in labour with ds2 enough was enough. Hardened our hearts. We were great parents and he was killing us.

So bath, story, bed and we fitted a lock to the bedroom door. No toys thrown over no nonsense. We went up about a million times to resettle and reassure but same message no coming down, no attention hugs bed.

Cool calm predictable and it worked on day 2..

Stay strong op. United and strong.

Some kids just arent tired, even when v young. I’d just let him stay up till he is tired. Not all kids want to go to bed at 7. Let him go at 9 or later if need be. No point stressing you all out just to get him bed for some notional time.