So so so conflicted about secondary school choice

[Bellocy]

Firstly, I'll preface this by saying that I fully recognise how privileged we are to have these choices.

Dd is going into year 5 at a private girls' junior school, which has a secondary on the same site. It's very rare for a child at the junior school not to get into the secondary - they just have to pass the exam and don't have to do an interview - so as dd is very academic, she is effectively guaranteed a place.

Alternatively, we could send her to our local Ofsted oustanding state comprehensive, that she is also almost certain to get into as we can see it from our house.

We've been trying to weigh it up:

Private school pros
- super academic, she'll be surrounded by bright kids like her
- smaller class sizes (max 24) - more individual attention
- incredible facilities - swimming pool, brand new library
- all girls - no disruptive boys

Private school cons
- Coach journey takes 40 minutes each way. She leaves the house at 7:20 each morning
- Huge catchment area - friends all over the place
- All girls - she doesn't have much interaction with boys outside of school as she has two sisters, and her main activity is GirlGuiding; would it mean she won't learn how to interact with boys?

State school pros
- She could leave the house at 8:20 and be on time - more time for sleep
- Get home 1.5 hours earlier (shorter school day) so get homework done sooner, more free time
- Local friends within walking distance
- learning to interact with people of all academic abilities
- If she and her sisters all go state for secondary, we could afford much nicer holidays, can save loads more for them for university/first cars/house deposits

State school cons
- not all the kids there will want to learn, more disruption?
- less focus on the brightest kids, not being stretched as much
- larger class sizes, less individual attention

Your local state school sounds great and well as saving money that you can use for other things (including tutors if need be) it is also a huge time saver. Think about what else she could do with that time. If the private school is a coach journey away, does that mean it's a school bus so no after school clubs compared to deciding to stay at school on as him in the state school?

I'd also bear in mind that she won't always be the age she is now! My dc like different subjects in secondary school to those they liked in primary. And she might like guides Now but 12 is the age that a huge number of girls do drop out... she may pick up other interests or none.

Totally disagree with the poster who said local friends weren't important. Secondary quickly becomes all about friends and friends you can actually see are way better than ones that live miles away. Unless you want to become a taxi service?

I really don't like your statement that only in private school will your daughter be surrounded by people who want to learn. So rude and patronising.

lala I agree! My niece has just gained the equivalent of 8 A* GCSEs ( Scottish National 5 level) and my friend's daughter 5 A grades at Higher level ( A level equivalent). Both at state school.
. My cousin's daughter has just gained a 1st class degree in Medicine and my other cousin is now a QC. All state school educated. They certainly all wanted to learn.

I recommend you stay at private school and give another deserving child a place at the state school, especially if you'll look down your nose at her state school friends.

I'm not looking down at anyone - I was state educated myself.

I of course did not mean to say that no state school students want to learn, just that, when I was at school, there were a few children who had no interest in school/education, and who were very disruptive.

I haven't seen this at the private schools my dds attend.

Pm'd you

Bellocy you have every single reason to be wary of state schools

My friend is doing supply teaching and some of the behavior she sees is shocking.

One class she walked in, they had never met her before and they started throwing paper balls at her.
One girl marched up to her and chucked whatever was in friends arms in the bin.

She has seen vicious in class fighting, chairs being lobbed is common.
People are very lucky if thier schools are good. But it's areal problem and its happening.

Of course behaviour not prefect on private but they can exclude and expel easier

I think you need to be honest with yourself about how you feel about the increased diversity (of ability, behaviour, background) at a state secondary and the risk that if things aren’t perfect (supply teacher for geography, bit of a naughty English class, netball club gets cancelled, school lunches are a bit rubbish...) you’ll wish you’d paid.

I work in a really brilliant and massively oversubscribed state comp with stellar results and lots of parents obsessing over the catchment. It really is excellent and I think the diversity makes it even better as an experience for the kids. However, every so often parents buy into the local obsession, buy (million £) houses to get in and then are shocked that their children are “exposed” to some of the more challenging stuff that can’t be avoided with a genuinely diverse intake. They imagined it would be like a private school for free, and obviously it isn’t! I don’t think the children’s education suffer at all compared to their peers at private schools because the school is very well run, and I think they leave having learnt a lot more about society than I did at my high achieving private girls’ school and being much more worldly wise and balanced, but you might want to think carefully about your tolerance for a more “broad” experience if your kids have only been in the private system so far.

But squeamishness aside, obviously you shouldn’t pay 3 sets of school fees for a marginally safer set of exam results unless it is genuinely pocket money to you. Think of all the other things you could do for your family with that money!!

no disruptive boys

Hahahaha.

I went to an all girls private school and trust me girls can be equally disruptive. I had a chair thrown at me once

So you will pay for Private School for one child, but not the other 2, because they're not so academic. The other 2 get shafted on holidays because of the first child, they also (should they surprise you academically down the line) get shafted on additional support at University etc ...
Think you should be considering all 3 children in this decision, not just one.

Private girls school. All girls will be a better environment, less distraction. Also, the connections she makes at the school might help her beyond school and into adulthood.

Cards on table, my two have just moved to private secondary after state primary. I would not necessarily have chosen it if state option was genuinely outstanding (not just Ofsted rated outstanding) but really it's a whole range of factors to consider.

The talk about greater/less diversity isnt true for all comp/private comparisons, although agree it often will be be but it depends on area and nature of the private school. They're not all traditional posh public schools and plenty of comps are full of white middle class family's from a Small catchment.

Girls schools can often still be distracted by boys. Our girls was obsessed with the male species.

I cannot believe the abject snobbery by some on this thread ( not you OP). I work in an inner city secondary in Glasgow ( we, quite rightly, do not have the grammar school.system) which is in an area of deprivation with lots of social issues ( drugs/ violence/ lack of nurture/ poverty) and it is the most WONDERFUL school to teach in and be a pupil at. We have lots of pupils who go on to excellent universities with outstanding results and ALL pupils are nurtured and treated as individuals, not exam fodder. A school is so much more than the sum of its parts, people.

We moved a few years back. I had the option of placing dc in private secondary school. We applied - accepted.

However, I was concerned that
A) dc would finish primary (one year) in state so a new kid, then have to be new kid all over again a year later. That’s two new schools in two years.
B) i was keen that dc have local friends (private school local but not local cohort).
C) the state school we eventually plumped for was more similar to the school in London he went to (ie wider demographic) so we’re state. Dc feels at home and is happy. The school is good enough. I’m saving £££ that,quite honestly, I didn’t have in the first place!

It’s a mixed school, but does well.

Op you seem to prefer the private school and dd settled. If you can easily afford it, why not keep her there?

With a state school that good and much closer to home I'd go state in this case. I'm not anti private school btw. As she gets older it'll be nice for her to have local friends, and think about the family things you can do with the tuition money.

In general though, the state school has never had below 91% five grades including English and Maths at A* to C. At the private school, this figure is always 100%.

And so it flipping well should be, with a selective intake, small classes, and extensive resources. 91% A*-C inc E&M is an exceptional set of outcomes for a non-selective comprehensive.

If you can afford it, keep her at the private school.

Sorry! Wrong thread!

My DH and SIL went to different secondary schools, she chose to go to a private girls school, he chose state school. The outcome? They are both on similar paid jobs, she did slightly better in A Levels but only slightly. They went to the same standard universities too. The main difference is their personalities. My SIL can be very selfish, short-tempered and stubborn, her mum even comments on it and they clash a lot because of it. My DH is much more laid-back and easy-going and he is much more sociable with his friends, he also feels more at ease with his friendship group than SIL who doesn't see her friends as much because she's not from the same "daddys little rich girl" background.

I went to a house party once and myself and 2 friends I went with were the only state schooled people there, the rest were private and my gosh couldn't you tell. They were off the rails. Drugs, careless sex, abortions, police encounters etc etc. I wish I could somehow send you my memories from that party because it would put you off private-schooled teenagers for life!

Your daughter will succeed academically because she is focused, bright and has her eye on the ball regardless of whether it is state or private. Do not be snobby about the situation just because your daughter may go to a private school doesn't mean her life path will be better carved because of it.

Sorry forgot to ask-

What does your daughter want to do? My MIL gave her children the choices and didn't argue or persuade otherwise with whatever they chose. The most important thing is your daughters happiness,don't cause conflict if she doesn't want to do what you do

I went to a private all girls school from 11, and I loved it, even though I had a long commute and not many local friends, as we were all spread out. The education and nurturing environment in school was worth it, and I am grateful to my parents for the sacrifices they made for me. I would not have done as well in the local comprehensive, where the teaching and results were very poor. I did go to a county orchestra on Saturdays, so was able to mix with boys there, which made the transition to University easy.

My DS is now in private education, and yes - we have made sacrifices, but we think it's worth it. The standard of teaching, smaller class sizes and the opportunities he has are incredible. We leave just after 7.30 and get back at 18.00, so it's a long day, but he's so incredibly happy there and is doing very well. Again, our local schools here aren't brilliant, and perhaps if they were we would have chosen state over private for primary, but definitely private from 11 based on my own experience. Our son is very academic, and for us it was vital that he went to a school where he would be constantly stretched and challenged, and not held back. We ensure that he has playdates on weekends and in holidays, so that he's not missing out. If your DD is happy and settled where she is then I would stick with private school.

Like Lululemonade, I was pulled out of private secondary half way through to due my parents precarious financial position.

I didn’t do as well in my exams as if I’d stayed at private, I’m sure. But I was so much happier, and attending both was a wonderful gift that gave me the very bankable skill of being able to interact with people from all backgrounds. Whilst many of my peers were intimidated by “toffs” etc I’ve never had an issue.

Both my DC are at state grammars, one is our closest secondary and the other a 35 minute commute. Both have friends spread around - it’s normal here & they work around it, meeting in town where school is or getting train from the bottom of the road. It’s a non issue.

What was very important to us was both our DCs being surrounded by a peer group that was motivated, disciplined by parents in an environment where they fitted in and felt at ease.

It sounds like either the state or the private will offer this for your DC. I’d be tempted to try the state, if there was an option to rejoin the private in Y8/9 if she wasn’t happy.

If your daughter is bright she will still thrive in a state school. It is a HUGE amount of money to spend when you do not have to. Have a good look at the state school, talk to as many parents and pupils there as you can before you make your decisions. There are many advantages to your child of a broader social mix., and some disadvantages that come with a narrow one. More importantly excellent exam results are perfectly achievable at a good state school. Do not underestimate the importance of upbringing and home life either. Your child's aspirations will be set by you and a good school should support them.