So so so conflicted about secondary school choice

[Bellocy]

Firstly, I'll preface this by saying that I fully recognise how privileged we are to have these choices.

Dd is going into year 5 at a private girls' junior school, which has a secondary on the same site. It's very rare for a child at the junior school not to get into the secondary - they just have to pass the exam and don't have to do an interview - so as dd is very academic, she is effectively guaranteed a place.

Alternatively, we could send her to our local Ofsted oustanding state comprehensive, that she is also almost certain to get into as we can see it from our house.

We've been trying to weigh it up:

Private school pros
- super academic, she'll be surrounded by bright kids like her
- smaller class sizes (max 24) - more individual attention
- incredible facilities - swimming pool, brand new library
- all girls - no disruptive boys

Private school cons
- Coach journey takes 40 minutes each way. She leaves the house at 7:20 each morning
- Huge catchment area - friends all over the place
- All girls - she doesn't have much interaction with boys outside of school as she has two sisters, and her main activity is GirlGuiding; would it mean she won't learn how to interact with boys?

State school pros
- She could leave the house at 8:20 and be on time - more time for sleep
- Get home 1.5 hours earlier (shorter school day) so get homework done sooner, more free time
- Local friends within walking distance
- learning to interact with people of all academic abilities
- If she and her sisters all go state for secondary, we could afford much nicer holidays, can save loads more for them for university/first cars/house deposits

State school cons
- not all the kids there will want to learn, more disruption?
- less focus on the brightest kids, not being stretched as much
- larger class sizes, less individual attention

I wouldn't do private in those circumstances. If she's already smart then she will excel in state school too. The money could be far better spent towards uni/housing and having a nice quality of life while they grow up.

As regards range of subjects - would it be wise to check exactly how free they are to combine different subjects at GCSE at each school?

We had a similar dilemma, DD is starting in a few weeks at a state grammar.

The all girls aspect was a massive pro for us.

Have you actually been to look at the state school? It sounds to me like it's a brilliant school. If your daughter is as bright as you say, she'll be in the top sets anyway. I have no issue at all with private education (privately educated myself) but in your situation it really does sound like spending money for no good reason now, which could be much better saved to help them through uni.

Today 17:27 Gruach

As regards range of subjects - would it be wise to check exactly how free they are to combine different subjects at GCSE at each school?

That's one issue with the state school - at GCSE, you can't do History and Geography AND triple science. Dd loves all these subjects. At A level they have to choose subject combos from certain blocks.

One of the private school's selling points is that pupils pick their subjects, and then the school writes its timetable and employs teachers based on their choices.

You lost my sympathy, such as it was, at 'no disruptive boys' (because of course girls are never disruptive) and then even more at 'learning to interact with people of all academic abilities', which comes across as shockingly patronising. As if all the other children just peopled some kind of skills training ground for your daughter. I wouldn't warm to you if I were a fellow parent at the state school and your daughter joined and you let that attitude shine through.

FWIW, if you are sure you can really afford it for all the siblings, I would stay private in your position. But frankly the kind of children whose parents do these mental gymnastics (I count myself among them) will probably do just fine anywhere.

State all the way. Unless the state school is very poor in comparison I just don't understand why people would really pay for private?!

The exam results are both very good and considering the state school pupils don't have to pass an exam and are therefore of wider abilities - that suggests the teaching is probably better there!!

DH went to a very expensive school and proceeded to fuck up at uni as was probably too used to being supported.

As a P.P said you need to look at GCSE not A level . Our local school is excellent but the sixth form is highly selective much more do than most of the local independents . The GCSE results are good but nothing like as stellar . Also look the subjects available especially as your dd is academic , how many mfl are taught , how much choice is there , can everyone do triple science do they make them take lots of exams to boost their pass rates eg the EDL .

Having said all that , if the independent is not oversubscribed and you could swop back in year 9 if needed I would be inclined to try the local as 40mins on coach is s long way .

I wish I had gone to the local state secondary. It would have meant local friends and mixed gender school. I went to a same sex school, total bitch-fest, travel was too long, I getvtravel sick so no study on the journey. Friends were too far away to just pop round for a bit. Imagine your DD being 40 minutes away from school, her friends could be another 40 minutes in opposite direction so 80 minutes just to hang out! In my case I missed so much socially and was very miserable. As a result my grades suffered, even my parents have always regretted not sending me to the local secondary.

Yes it is-if your child doesn’t have communication difficulties and can make friends!

There’s a huge advantage to having local friends.

My ds doesn’t and he feels he’s missing out. I’d agree.

Your DD is old enough to be involved in the decision, particularly the family decision to invest such a large sum of money on such a tiny rate of return.

save loads more for them for university/first cars/house deposits

The difference in teaching would have to be immense to make that difference, and the state school you're describing certainly does not look bad. That's even before you have the huge time investment of the commute.

Universities look more favourable on top grades from state schools, as those achieving A/A* grades at private school are two a penny and won't stand out. If your daughter should get top grades at a state school, why bother shelling out?

If your dd is academic i would disregard the results.they are great results and you should assume that your dd will do well there.
I would also disregard 6th form. Its a long way off. Options and likes might change.
Are you actually making this decision now for both your children? For me, it comes down to serious cash vs. telling your dd she is going elsewhere for secondary.

I agree with the importance of looking at GCSE results as well as A level results - they are slightly harder to compare as the private school still hasn't switched fully from letter grades to number grades (I think next week's results will be the first results that are all numbers).

In general though, the state school has never had below 91% five grades including English and Maths at A* to C. At the private school, this figure is always 100%.

What about state for KS3 then maybe back to private for KS4? Move back to private could be made earlier if she wasn't happy or she could stay if she's happy.

With regards to siblings, both her younger sisters are currently at a different private primary (that doesn't feed into a secondary) as they didn't pass the 3+ at dd1's school.

They aren't as academic as dd1, so we probably wouldn't be looking to send them to the private secondary attached to dd1's school.

If we send dd1 private for secondary, that doesn't necessarily mean that we would send dds 2 and 3 private too.

If we don't send dd1 private for secondary, it's very unlikely we'd send dds 2 and 3 private.

One family I know went the private route - job changes have made it a struggle. Holidays are camping or freebies, and that’s before the youngest starts. Dc is doing so so academically, but having good success in sports (important to them).

Other family went with the state. They have jaw droppingly brilliant holidays, the kids can go on all the (expensive) school trips they want, and have funding for extra curricular activities. Two of the dc also excelling at their chosen sports county level.

Also, three children I knew growing up went to independent schools - one flunked A Levels, but now has the best paid job; one is in a medium paying civil service job; one excelled academically but is not in work due to health difficulties. Outcomes vary!

If we do send dds 2 and 3 private for secondary, it will likely be at a different, less selective school, with more emphasis on the arts.

i would go for state in your position. is there anyone you know who would tell you honestly about the extent of drug taking and bullying in each school? some people say all girl environments can be very vicious and some people say that teenagers with lots of disposable income are targets for drug dealers

Definitely local and local friends

I went to a private prep school then onto private secondary, however my father was made redundant and they were not very flexible so I left after a year and went to the local comprehensive.
There is no doubt at all in my mind that I would have got much better exam results had I stayed at the private school. Also we had larger classes and fewer books which were often older and the facilities were not as good.
My parents had to make the decision, which must have been heartbreaking for them. If you can afford it I would keep her private...

If she's academically bright I'd look into what there is for offer in terms of acceleration at each. My speciality is maths so in that subject I'd be asking about maths olympiad etc. Also other opportunities (public speaking for example, programming, drama) sometimes these opportunities an be great even for children who wouldn't naturally put themselves forward for them.

I'd go for the outstanding state school personally.

State school for all your kids!
There will then be money for decent, mind-expanding holidays, trips to interesting things, peripatetic music lessons, tutors if necessary, expensive niche sports (golf, riding, skiing), extracurricular stuff like DofE, exchange visits.
Clever kids with engaged, interested, educated and affluent parents have every advantage so make the most of it by using your state school and enable them to continue getting good results so they can recruit good teachers and take advantage of grants/sponsorships etc. It's a virtuous circle

Oh and private school kids can be just as disruptive as state, some of them don't want to go to school either! (I went private and was a horror )