To be annoyed I’m having to fight so hard to have an elective caesarean?

[OutPinked]

Basically, after three 10lb babies, my uterus has understandably lost its tone. I am 28 weeks with my fourth and final baby but measuring 32 weeks. I’ve been referred for a growth scan which will be utterly pointless as they always are. They’ll confirm he’s a big baby then do nothing with that information because there’s not really much they can do. Passed GTT with flying colours and I’m not obese, it’s just genetics.

First delivery was shoulder dystocia with emergency forceps and an extended episiotomy. Stitches burst open and became infected, I was in agony for weeks. Second delivery was retained placenta and huge PPH, again I was rushed down to theatre then later given two blood transfusions. It still took me weeks to recover and feel human again. Third delivery went ok but I needed an injection to stem the bleed.

Last year I had medical management for a missed miscarriage. Had a massive haemmorhage, went into shock, fell unconscious and needed emergency surgery+ a blood transfusion. Again, it took me weeks to feel human and I was on iron tablets for months.

DP can’t face the trauma of seeing me nearly die again and I can’t face the trauma of doctors piling in from all angles, jumping on top of me and being rushed down to theatre either. We’ve both decided an elective caesarean is safest. There’s no risk to future pregnancies because there won’t be any. If I do start to haemorrhage again, at least I’m already in theatre surrounded by medics who will immediately be on top of it.
It just seems far more calm and controlled and to me, is an absolute no brainer.

However, I have now seen two consultants who have tried their upmost to deter me. I’ve had almost pointless risk factors thrown in my face (pointless because there’s more chance of dying in a car accident but that won’t stop me driving). I’ve been told that I may bleed more after a CS and when I’ve explained the fact its still safer than risking that blood loss after a ‘natural’ delivery they shoot me down by saying they will still be on hand if it happens after a natural delivery. They don’t seem to grasp that I don’t want them to have to rush in from all angles, I want them to just be there from the off. They also try to deter me by mentioning recovery time forgetting how long it took me to recover after my first and second deliveries as well as the MMC last year.

After yesterday’s consultant appointment, I now have to see an ‘expert midwife’ to ‘discuss birth options’ . Seems ridiculously patronising because my mind is evidently made up but it’s just another hoop to jump through... then I will have to see the consultant again if it’s still what I want (it will be). Argh! To me, it’s just another example of women not being trusted to make the right decision for their own body and I’m tired of it. It’s irritating they reserve so much energy to warn women of risk factors during a caesarean but never ever warn them of what can go wrong during a ‘natural delivery’ too.

Thank you MinisterforCheekyFuckery for that. The idea that women want to preserve their vaginas for “vanity” reasons is ludicrous. Personally, I’ve never considered my genitals to so attractive their beauty needs to be preserved at all costs.

But at least that poster proved my earlier point that childbirth injuries are seen as mere collateral damage because the health of the baby is the only important outcome.

Yep, lowtide, that has been my argument against the cost issue too. I think everything I have been through gynaecologically in the past will have cost the NHS far more than an ELCS yet they’re still pushing the riskier option. They’re definitely wanting to take the “let’s do it and wish for the best” approach and when my life is at stake, I’m just not willing to do that.

EMCS have twice the risk of haemorrhage to ELCS because the cervix is already dilated. I mentioned it to the consultant and he took an almighty gulp because he didn’t have an adequate response. EMCS and ELCS stats are merged and it’s ridiculous.

As someone said upthread. Go grey rock and say repeatedly thank you dear, I do understand, but I am choosing an elective c section.
Over and over again
To every question

Your vagina, your decision. If however you think you have an opinion on mine then you can go feck off.

I got an elective section after baby turned breech and I also got pre eclampsia and cholestasis to top it up. Prior to this I'd asked whether. I just has cholestasis and was told very condescendingly all the above bullshit about vaginal birth being safer yada yada.

Despite complications and losing a lot of blood I still feel I was incredibly lucky compared to so many women forced to have a natural birth against their wishes and who ended up with horrid life affecting problems as a result. Not one person I know can actually say they had a trouble free experience!

I am sympathetic towards your plight but I have also had 3 vaginal births and think if I had another it is a bit late to suddenly demand a csection and preserve my pelvic floor, especially considering the risks. Good luck though!

If tone is the issue, the risk of PPH is still there at LSCS. And the tone of the uterus won't improve until the first layer is closed. The difference is, it'll be a non-labouring uterus vs one that has been labouring. You might be able to convince them by making them aware that you know this ;)

OP: I wish you well with your forthcoming birth. I felt the same way when asking about single vaccinations vs the MMR many years ago. PLEASE NOTE I WAS HAVING MY CHILD VACCINATED (befoer anyone piles in etc). But there was total pressure for one method of vaccination and no information about the other. I was patronised, treated as if I was stupid, when all I wanted was information. It is true - women (real women) are not allowed to ask questions and be involved in their or their families care. #notOK

You have to mention anxiety. Try it and see what happens. Says the mum of someone having one in under two weeks.

The reason has never been proven, I’m not sure they’d be able to. They’ve taken a good stab in the dark at it being down to uterine tonality due to the size of my babies but it’s not 100%. It’s a good guess though and seems like a realistic reason. The consultant yesterday explained my uterus has an issue with ‘clamping down’ after birth, it’s not very efficient at it.

I’m not worried about damaging my pelvic floor- I think that’s probably already done for .

Thank you greenlanes and I totally agree with you.

Mentioning anxiety is a good point, I will do that next time. It’s not even a lie, I am genuinely petrified. The most scary part isn’t even haemorrhaging, it’s the red buzzer going and everyone piling in then being wheeled down to theatre. That fills me with dread and horrendous flashbacks, mostly to the MMC last year.

I hope you manage to get things sorted, after everything you have been through previously I cannot believe they are making you jump through so many hoops.
Good luck with everything. X

It has been explained that the risk of PPH is still there and I am aware of it. I’m willing to take that risk if it means I have a team surrounding me ready to resolve it.

Thank you very much strawberry .

Clearly in a minority but I think it should be hard. Not impossible by any means, but I don't think it should be a simple thing to request and get. Any surgery should be very carefully considered by all parties and a non-surgical option should be the first port of call.

I had a section because I was emotionally destroyed from a combination of having had having a tfmr at 23 weeks in my previous pregnancy and because my dad had been murdered when I was 20 weeks pregnant. No one argued with me. If I’d have had birth injuries I bet it’d have been a different story.

Totally agree OP.

It's about the NHS devaluing women's opinion on their own health and own mind and trying to save money in the wrong place.

But not that hard, surely, tedandlola

So sorry to hear that chin but I am very glad they didn’t make an already difficult time even more difficult for you.

A vaginal delivery doesn’t save money if there’s retained placenta, PPH, spinal in theatre, manual removal of placenta then two blood transfusions and a three day hospital stay though, that’s the thing. If it’s a cost issue, they need to consider the fact I’ve probably cost them as much if not more with my shitty ineffective uterus . It doesn’t necessarily save money at all.

I disagree, tedandlola. We need to move away from the belief that a vaginal delivery is any less risky than an ELCS. It isn’t always, there are huge risks involved that are sort of brushed under the carpet.

Thanks out, being in a controlled, safe, predicable environment saved my mental health. Ironically, it also saved DD as she was poorly and straight off to NICU at birth.

@TedAndLola
Why should non-surgical options be the first port of call though if the cost to the NHS is virtually the same and the risk profiles of both modes of birth suggest that the overall level of risk may be similar? I just don't understand the rationale!

Yanbu, I hope you are successful.

I have heard several women who havent even given birth once claim they dont want alter their bits so want a c section.
Yes i understand some ladies do have it hard and there is a real difference between actual injury and worrying about how there vagina looks..or there pelvic floor..which if you do the exercises can usually be regained.
I tore with my first and had 3 other babies and they were relatively easy births tbf.
There are some who do it purely for vanity reasons and thats what i was getting at, not those who have suffered actual trauma during birth thats totally different and understandable as to why they would want to avoid a natural birth.

There will undoubtedly be a few women wanting a caesarean for that reason bitcat but there are also women genuinely scared about damaging their pelvic floor, bladder, suffering a prolapse etc. So they aren’t always thinking of vanity. Let’s face it, vaginas aren’t the prettiest things anyway .

@BITCAT
But even if it was for vanity reasons why is that wrong? Again I'll repeat the same points that csections don't cost the NHS more in the long term nor are they inherently more risky than vaginal birth, so why do you think a woman should be denied her right to choose the mode of birth that best suits her?