I shouldn’t have to explain this to MIL

[TheRebel]

We walked past a homeless person today and MIL gave him some money and then started chuntering away that we shouldn’t be letting foreigners into the country when we haven’t got enough houses for “our own” and I had to explain to her that homeless people aren’t homeless because there’s a shortage of housing but because of their complex needs, she found this very surprising.

I have also had to previously explain to her that Brexit didn’t happen the day after the referendum and that it wouldn’t stop people from outside the EU coming here.

She’s in her 60s, surely she should understand these things by now.

A quick glance at Question Time will show you plenty of ignorant people in that age bracket.

This x100.

Age does not necessarily bring wisdom.

Are you sure they were homeless? Street begging managed by people traffickers is a big issue in my local City Centre. You both sound naive and condescending.

BTW I agree there is a lack of access to affordable secure housing but I think it is more driven by Government policy towards social housing and social security and under funding of Council intervention services than Brexit or not. I also agree that street homelessness is a complex issue and housing availability is only a small part of the problem.

First sign Universal credit had come to our city was a massive rise in homelessness and corresponding rise in tents under bridges and rough sleepers around shops and into centre.

Affordable housing is an issue but less an issue than many parts of UK - and there are council properties more stock than in other parts of UK.

There's low wages, little job security, many lone parents and families with problems and very few people with any decent level of savings or many cases any savings.

I don't think Britex has hit yet - area voted leave despite getting EU money for a lot of things.

Well done OP - Mil, Brexit and age bashing, all in one post. Shoehorn something in about sahm and formula feeding and you'll hsve hit the jackpot!

I am not sure that your analysis of why people are homeless is entirely comprehensive. There is undoubtedly a housing shortage (of the right sort of housing) and many homeless people do have complex needs. It is not either/or.

Some people just aren't engaged in the news and don't bother to get well informed, so they just absorb bigoted views from tabloids and social media. There are groups that specifically target older people, nudging them to support right wing views for example with the Leave.EU stuff and Britain First. They start out with 'be proud of our soldiers' and end up with something about white supremacy.
I wouldn't say there's zero relationship between immigration and homelessness, it's just way, way less than is made out. TBH a growing elderly population underoccupying housing stock designed for families is much more of a problem. Not an easy one to sort out because there aren't enough properties for one or two older people to live in, and equity is often tied up in property making it a bad idea to downsize.
It can't be denied that there are immigrants living in houses in this country. They're also likely the ones maintaining the houses and building new houses!

Ha not being goady, I’m just fed up with having to counter racism/xenophobia almost every time we meet up and hearing someone with strong views on a subject that they seem to know very little about!

Well stop seeing her then. Problem solved

You sound rude and ignorant op. I feel sorry for your MIL

Homelessness is caused by many things, drug use/alcohol issues it is ALSO caused by a shortage of affordable housing due to population increase and rent increases due to lack of supply. Your MIL is not wrong to explain ONE of the reasons for homelessness. You were just being spiteful by pulling her up so vocally. You and I both know she is to some degree completely right.

zippey, if people are homeless because of relationship breakdown, unemployment and poverty, then that is because of a lack of affordable housing, and now, the cuts obviously and not because of complex needs.

AlmaGeddon when I worked in Welfare Rights, we would still see people who were homeless, who had been in the last of the institutions, up until the early 90's. Or who had been discharged from Hospitals, without a set-up package. So their needs were complex.

Personally, I couldn't live on the streets without a drink and I'd probably take drugs, if they were offered. Look at the threads on camping, most people couldn't even live in a tent, with enough money for food and access to showers.

The Government has pledged £100 million to solve homelessness, but are falling to recognise that Universal Credit, the cutting of benefits, Bedroom tax etc is causing it, in the first place, often.

""TBH a growing elderly population underoccupying housing stock designed for families is much more of a problem.""

In only very small pockets of the country and in the other areas, it will be thanks to them occupying SH that it will still exist, because as the housing can't be filled, because of the Bedroom Tax, they are being sold and not replaced. We are going to come out of this time period, as we did after Thatcher and release the full extent of what the Torys have to to end SH.

Your MIL sounds lovely donating money to a homeless person.

Did you give them anything or do you think you do enough for charity putting little old ladies straight on the new world order?

A quick glance at Question Time will show you plenty of ignorant people in that age bracket. Or people who don't agree with you.

Or people who don't agree with you.

Personally I find it difficult to agree with people who are talking complete shit.

Someone tries to show their superior knowledge and shows their ignorance instead.

Yep. I suspect the OP was expecting lots of other posters to pile on telling her that her MIL is an old fool and people of her generation know nothing. That thank the lord we have people like the OP, with such insight, to guide the oldies.

You’re all right, she’s perfect and I’ll just keep my mouth shut next time she goes off on a disgusting misinformed racist rant!

OP, this little tantrum kind of shows immaturity on your part. It's MN, you posted and didn't get the responses you expected. It happens.

I had to explain Brexit to a friend yesterday and she is 42. I am a pensioner. She also thinks Alan Bennett could play for Arsenal.

Didn’t the stastics show that a lot of young and youngish people didn’t even vote in the EU referendum ?
The housing crisis is going to continue as the large building companies are wriggling out of building anything remotely affordable. Google any large company, ( appearances in court) such as Barratts and see what they have been up to.
Most councils make an effort to get the homeless off the streets it’s really MH support and help that is needed.
There is quite a considerable amount of ageism on Mumsnet.

As a ‘old’ person I would like to say that I still work, I won a Government award this year, I have a very satisfactory sex life, go to the gym, travel widely Russia, South Africa etc, read avidly and listen to the depressing news every day and I am also in a Pub Quiz team.
There are probably as many stupid and ill informed young people about as us ‘old’ people.
Mums-netters usually consider any MIL thread as an excuse to be vile. When us MILs offer an opinion because we are experienced with the situation, we are derided and mocked. Mmmm, you wait !
OP your post really reveals more about you, than your MIL.
Also for the smarmy grammar police, I know my user name should say too, not to.
I consider 90 as old, not 60.

There’s a variety of reasons people are homeless and a shortage of social homes and affordable housing is one of them. Not everyone who is homeless has ‘complex needs’.

The vast majority of those who are long term homeless do have complex needs. Those able to navigate the process of accessing support don't stay homeless. It's interesting also to access the stats for homelessness as well eg in 2017 Shelter said there were 20 rough sleepers and 61 people in temporary accommodation in Leeds total 81 homeless people, Wakefield had 7 rough sleepers and 291 in temporary accommodation. This feels disproportionate to when you walk round many of those you see sat are begging and do have a bed available.

From chuntering to ranting ..... Amazing how the OP can change so much when challenged

Of course grinding poverty does contribute to mental health problems, so the relationship between homeless and complex seems like a chicken and egg one.

People are not sitting in town centres with signs reading homeless and hungry purely because there isn’t enough housing and no other reason, I agree that there are plenty of hidden homeless in unsuitable and temporary housing

Hidden homeless? Nothing hidden about it. Street dwellers, which you seem to think synonymous with homeless people, are a tiny minority of homeless people.

There are plenty of homes for everyone. Not all of them are available or suitable for people to live in.

But it's easier for some to blame immigrants.

We have a housing crises in this country because our investment in infrastructure per capita is a fraction of every other 1st world nation. We already don't have sufficient workforce in many key areas (teachers, doctors, nursers, carers etc) so no immigration is not an option.

There’s a variety of reasons people are homeless and a shortage of social homes and affordable housing is one of them. Not everyone who is homeless has ‘complex needs’.

Actually the vast majority of homeless people have complex needs. Without a mental health issue you would be able to navigate the system and be provided with emergency housing (even if it was a temporary B&B or place in a shared house).

TBF some homelessness is because there's not enough social housing, particularly for vulnerable people.

well, in my many decades experience of working for the homeless, I would say more than three quarters of them are homeless because of lack of available housing and nothing else.

I fact, one of the charities I work for most often does not take anyone with a history of drug taking, criminal records or any mental health issues - and any guests drinking even once in their time with us would lose their place immediately.

Different charities cater for a different clientele, but many that aim to find permanent housing for their guests don't take anyone with "complex needs" because they are not the people they have raised money for.

The people they have raised money for are the people they can most likely help into housing,

ie non-drinking, non drug taking rough sleepers with qualifications and jobs.

Of which there are many

Actually the vast majority of homeless people have complex needs. Without a mental health issue you would be able to navigate the system and be provided with emergency housing (even if it was a temporary B&B or place in a shared house).

This is just not true

The most common reasons I come across for homelessness are ( in no particular order)

eviction by landlord, for what ever reason

bereavement, the person who's house you are living in dies, and you do not inherit, I've seen this with people living in as carers for grandparents, or parents, or just someone who's partner has died

redundancy or medical problem leading to job loss, leading to repossession of mortgaged property

acquiring refugee status and being made to leave asylum seeker accommodation

leaving care,

leaving the armed forces,

coming out of prison

divorce/ relationship breakdown

parents throwing children out, for example this year have dealt with several young gay teenagers, thrown out when their parents find out they are gay, poor relationship with parent or step parent is another reason to end up sleeping rough.

Some rough sleepers end up sleeping rough as a result of drinking/drugs/mental health problems/ etc - but it is just as likely that these issues start AFTER someone has started sleeping rough