I shouldn’t have to explain this to MIL

[TheRebel]

We walked past a homeless person today and MIL gave him some money and then started chuntering away that we shouldn’t be letting foreigners into the country when we haven’t got enough houses for “our own” and I had to explain to her that homeless people aren’t homeless because there’s a shortage of housing but because of their complex needs, she found this very surprising.

I have also had to previously explain to her that Brexit didn’t happen the day after the referendum and that it wouldn’t stop people from outside the EU coming here.

She’s in her 60s, surely she should understand these things by now.

Really stop, could you provide a link?

well in my opinion she was partly right some homelessness is because of housing especially in places like London. The programme that was just recently about people who had jobs and where still homeless well that is because of lack of affordable housing. Some homelessness is because of complex needs and because funding has been cut to services. Where I live in the north east they do still have supported living facilities for people who need them , YMCA has flats , they have places where people who have mental health , addiction issues , have just been realised from prison can go and live with support workers and help them get back on their feet if that's what they wish to do. If this didn't exist these people may have become homeless. I would imagine that not everyone who wants to do this will get a place especially in huge cities ECT so would these people become homeless ? Maybe your mil isn't as up to date with current affairs as you but you have come across as pretty superior on this thread im sure you didnt mean to but she might be picking up on this.

Well the homeless are homeless due to shortage indecent housing or at least housing they can afford, so you're wrong. Their complex needs have nothing to do with it and not all have complex needs. Some have just fallen on hard times.

I agree with her to an extent. We should provide for our people here already before providing for others who have just arrived. How many times do you see stories about army veterans who have struggled with daily life due to ptsd and then end up homeless? Or that story only the BBC recently about the man who had a perfectly normal life, then suffered some blows in his life and now he faces homelessness, with no one caring. That's not fair they aren't given support. There used to be much better support but money is spent elsewhere now. Yet we still give a lot of foreign aid and we pay benefits for families in other countries. That money would be better spent on the homeless here and anything left over goes for foreign aid.

It's a hard choice to make but honestly our people should come first. They are here now, and they are struggling. No one cares, instead the government makes it worse on the poor, reducing free school meals, taxing us more, reducing services etc. The services that used to help them are gone. Do you really think that's fair?

Is that you debbydoesdallas?

You might not be racist etc... but you are ageist ~ you’d better get help with that l think.

'complex needs' is a funny term when you think about it.
Does that mean they don't want to live with family but don't have the mental capacity to live alone, or that they're too selfish with their wish to drink and do drugs for their families to put up with them, or spend their benefits money on drugs and alcohols so have no money for accommodation, or are mentally or physically incapable of looking after themselves but their rights allow them to choose to live on the street. Is it a politically correct term implying understanding and empathy? But a bit of a get out clause.

Alma complex needs in this case usually refers to a combination of serious mental health and addiction issues.

People who are homeless and living long term on the streets are rarely there directly because of a shortage of housing. The massive shortage of housing is the reason for the "hidden homeless" sofa surfing and in council funded B&B accommodation. There are far more of these people than street homeless.

It should be possible to help people with complex needs, but simply giving them a flat wouldn't work in many cases. I use to work with a street homeless charity in London, and many of the clients had been set up in flats but been unable to cope with the responsibility and returned to the streets despite the best efforts of support workers visiting regularly. Many also refused to sleep in homeless shelters/ hostels or even more often were unable to follow the rules there due to their mental health problems. Of course these people need and deserve help (and yes, as someone says there are a high number of ex military men) but it isn't as simple as them needing the flat which has been given to an immigrant family!

OP was being goady. Another Brexit thread. Another ageist "all people over 60 are stupid" thread. Another MiL thread. Yawn!

Indeed. OP your first post comes across as pretty patronising. There is a housing crisis here in the UK

Your mil isn’t actually wrong. She just doesn’t have the whole picture. Lots of people are living for example 11+ to a 2 bed house in illegal HMO’s. Most of these people are immigrants, who are unable to rent legally. Therefore if these illegal HMO’s didn’t exist, these people would also be homeless. There was a recent Ch4 Dispatches documentary about people on the streets but working “Homeless and working”. There is consequently both a deficit of affordable housing and appropriate housing for people with complex needs.

I am friendly with a couple, who on their return to the U.K. had a very difficult time finding a house to rent as they had cash but no incomes. She told me she finally found a place by approaching the ll directly and explaining their situation, namely she had grown up in the village and her father lived there etc. They even had terrible difficulty getting simple things like mobile phones. They were lucky that she had cash, local roots and a sympathetic ll, who accepted her offer of 6 months upfront rent.

Dh and I also returned to the U.K. after a decade abroad. We had income here but to get a mortgage for our return, we had to pretend to live with my family and provide 3 months of bank statements registered at their address.

I wonder if you know as much as you think you know.

It's a complex issue and you are wrong to be patronising her with your simplistic view which is just the opposite end of the spectrum from her simplistic view. Interesting that she gave money not you.

OP please do keep explaining stuff to your poor ignorant old MIL. She and her friends no doubt find your conversations very funny when recounted over a gin or two. Do you have some other pearls of wisdom to share with us? Can't wait.

How very kind of you to patronisingly explain the world to a woman twice your age, OP. I'm sure she's really grateful for those pearls of wisdom. However did she manage before her son met you?

No, the OP is quite correct that homelessness is not caused by a lack of housing, or property given to foreigners before UK individuals. One of the reasons is a lack of affordable homes, but it’s usually combined with other things such as poverty, relationship breakdowns, mental health, abuse, unemployment etc etc.

People are not sitting in town centres with signs reading homeless and hungry purely because there isn’t enough housing and no other reason, I agree that there are plenty of hidden homeless in unsuitable and temporary housing.

I only mentioned her age because you could expect some naivety about how the world works from someone in their early 20s!

You’re all right, she’s perfect and I’ll just keep my mouth shut next time she goes off on a disgusting misinformed racist rant!

Now disgusting, misinformed racist rants are different. Perhaps you should have started a thread about this than about this topic. I could gladly have commiserated with you.

You are not doing yourself any favours on this thread and coming across as pretty angry yourself tbh.

Well, there is a housing crisis in the country and part of that is because we have had a huge surge in population

Nothing to do with affordable housing being sold of and not enough affordable renting now in the firm of council properties (which are often half the price of housing association property to rent)

The fact that private LL won’t rent to single people in my area unless they earn over £25k so we have hospital workers commuting for 45 minutes each way as they can’t live close to work & are not successful in bidding for any social housing as there is a housing shortage - due to many being sold of...

If there was masses of houses just for the taking, there would be little or no homeless though so you are wrong OP surely?
One of the main reasons the homeless sleep on the streets when they are homeless rather than a shelter is because they feel safer on the streets. They are more likely to be injured or killed or stolen from in a shelter as they often have communal style bedrooms.

Well I’m nearer to your MILs age than yours but consider myself quite well informed. Unfortunately it was many of our generation that plunged the Brexit knife into the country because they believed the rubbish in the Daily Mail and think Boris is a bit of a character.
Many are ill informed about the complex causes of increased homelessness - greater tolerance of early drug and alcohol use coupled with a massive reduction in support services. Plus less affordable housing and barely any inpatient mental health facilities.
At least MIL gave them money rather than sneered and suggested councils should move them on.

Such ageism!

I'm 63 (today, as it happens). I voted Remain and I work with vulnerable people who are homeless or at risk of homelessness.

Not everyone over 60 is a naive DM/DE reader with no notion of the complexities of the housing shortage or the lack of services for things like MH and addiction. And many of my much younger clients think housing is a problem caused by immigration and that voting doesn't make any difference.

Ignorance affects all age groups.

In the northern city I work in there are beds (note beds) enough for all homeless people. There is a lack off suitable housing and the Government cuts and red tape has made accessing council properties very difficult for people with complex needs. You don't just nip down the council it's a long process. There is an increase in use of drugs amongst homeless people such as spice which is a hideous drug. Many of the people have histories of domestic abuse, drug use, alcohol, mental health issues etc... and it's very hard to access services, such as these services are, with no home. There is a noted increase in physical disabilities ie folk injecting into their legs, it gets infected and not treated then ultimately a wheelchair is needed. There is a definite lack of available adapted properties. There are charities doing a great job but people have to go to them willing to be helped, often there are street outreach teams as well doing their best in difficult circumstances. As for young homeless people there is a huge rise in complexity- most are not able to be at home due to breakdown in relationships with parents, far too many are care leavers. If given a council property they are not ready to sustain a tenancy and the tenancy fails, young person back at square one. Work is required to build independent living skills to help them manage their tenancies. Often they don't realise you have to pay bills and buy food... some turn up in the system not knowing how to look after themselves even how/when to shower. A massive input of pre-tenancy work is needed. A very complex (and often sad) topic.

"Homelessness is on the rise because of a lack of housing."

We're talking about rough sleeping aren't we? That is not caused by lack of housing. We don't really have a lack of living space anyway, it's the way it's distributed that's the problem. We have more bedrooms than we have people needing them. We also have lots of empty homes.

"Mark my word, if she is in her 60’s then she knows more about the subject then you do, she just doesn’t want to argue with you."

What a silly thing to write. A quick glance at Question Time will show you plenty of ignorant people in that age bracket.

If there was masses of houses just for the taking, there would be little or no homeless though so you are wrong OP surely?

There would still be a lot of people who can't manage to keep a tenancy because of poor mental health, learning disability, inability to manage finances and a whole host of other reasons.

One of my clients nearly lost her home because she simply couldn't manage the complexities of the benefit system. She's a graduate and worked as a teacher until she had to give up to care for her disabled child.

The OP said she mentioned age because she expected younger people to be ignorant/ misinformed or gullible and expected a woman in her 60s to know more. If that's ageist it's the young being discriminated against surely?

Well, there is a housing crisis in the country and part of that is because we have had a huge surge in population

This

The infrastructure hasn't had a chance to catch up - but you are right OP in that it is a much more complex issue than just not having enough homes to go round.

There actually probably ARE enough properties - but many are standing empty - often for years. And nothing the councils can do about it.

I have been told that in Italy, if a property is uninhabited for a period of time it is confiscated and made available to homeless families, but I don't know if this is true. Just something someone mentioned once.