To think the NHS was completely useless for this.

[cuckoonut]

My daughter has severe depression and a potential diagnosis of BPD in January when she turns 18. Recently she's been in an extremely dark place. She's been in and out of inpatient units since she was 14 so we're kind of used to the process of what happens when she attempts to end her life. Two weeks ago she took an overdose, she was taken to a&e, checked over and had a mental health assessment. They deemed her fit to leave and sent her on her way. She has been given no extra support since then despite us asking multiple times. Last night she attempted again. She took 16 Paracetamol with half a bottle of wine and intended on taking another box if we hadn't have stopped her going out. She almost collapsed about 3 hours after and we put two and two together. We called the ambulance and they said they'd send somebody out within 2 hours and to call back if anything changed.

We sat up and waited with her for about 45 minutes when her breathing became very painful, and she said if she didn't force herself to breathe she thought she would stop altogether. She was struggling to stay awake. My DH called the ambulance again to tell them. They said 9 minutes and to hold for a clinician. When we were put through to the clinician she said, quote "from a medical stand point there's nothing wrong with her. She doesn't need to be seen" despite her not being able to breathe and taking an overdose just hours earlier. She kept insisting DD was fine and that she would cancel the ambulance. We asked to talk to somebody else and she kept refusing. We hung up and called again but they kept saying we had to speak to the lady. The ambulance arrived as she was saying she would cancel it. The paramedic checked DD over and said it was best if we went to A&E because of the dose and it was an attempt to end her life. Then her radio buzzed and they asked "why are you still there?" She called up the lady we had been on the phone to and they had a long conversation outside. She then came back and said it was unnecessary to come to the hospital and that DDs mental health team would be informed on Monday. DD has been up all night vomitting and wanting to hurt herself. They didn't even give her a mental health assessment like they're supposed to when somebody tries to commit suicide. She's a minor for God sake!!

Also the NHS does treat and help 1000s and 1000s of patients with their mental health and mental illness, but services are woefully under-resourced, especially in secondary care. With the Tories' huge reduction in the number of inpatient beds, the work previously undertaken in the community by therapists and CPNs is now focused on looking after patients who should have a hospital bed. This is very intensive support which takes resources away from people like the OP's daughter. I'm sure someone will be along in a minute talking about magic money trees, waste and NHS managers. The fact remains when you take away beds, you add huge pressure to services. We simply don't pay enough per capita to fund the level of NHS services that people expect.

The NHS and mental health services are utterly crippled at the moment - I'm having to self fund my treatment for PTSD.

Yes, you should have made your own way to A&E but to be honest I doubt you'd have had much luck once you got there. Very different situation (and as a word of warning before you continue reading - this is upsetting) but I know someone who's daughter very recently took the life of her own son during the midst of a mental health crisis (she thought he was better off dead rather than being taken by whoever it was that was coming after them - just mind bogglingly tragic) and this was after her parents had taken her to A&E in desperation, only to be sent home.

I really do despair.

People who are isolated have higher rates of mental illness. And not everyone was supported in the past. Lesbians and gay people and immigrants had much higher rates of suicide and mental illness in the past.
And there were a lot of housewives on strong medication.

But there are two kinds of mental illness. The kind that is to do with the situation people are in now. For these people short term counselling and/or medication that helps them improve their lives is usually enough. For those with ongoing mental health problems though there is no easy answer.

The problem is mental health issues covers so many different things. No two people are alike.

Mental health problems are also difficult to diagnose - you can't see the problem as you would with say a heart attack. Awareness has risen, and some diagnose themselves were there is no diagnosis and they are just stressed/depressed

Then there are those who fail to take their medication properly - sometimes deliberately ie they feel better so reduce their dose.

Where does the NHS start??

@jacks11 is completely right - often with BPD and recurrent self harm attempts inpatient admission is actually not helpful. These patients need consistency and being admitted and discharged can lead to complex feelings including becoming attached to caregivers and then feeling rejected. Suicide risk increases at time of discharge and self harm can escalate. So thats probably not the answer.

Yes definitely should be assessed in a&e, but doesnt need an ambulance. She does need mental health follow up and I am surprised to hear nothing is being done. The only other thing I would say is that mental health services are limited by funds and resources. If a patient refuses treatment or doesnt engage with treatment there are strict criteria for mental health act involvement (so treatment can be given against their will). If they dont meet that legal criteria but wont work with services then mental health services can only do so much.

A&E? Yes, to address the O/D
Ambulance? No - you should drive her down there.

The issue is the lack of funding in MH, Children's Services and Social Care.

Sadly, things will only get worse. It's not that NHS staff are useless, it's that there are not enough of them to handle each case to the best of their ability.

So sorry.

Sadly, things will only get worse. It's not that NHS staff are useless, it's that there are not enough of them to handle each case to the best of their ability

Absolutely this. MH services are woeful, and that’s heartbreaking. We are quite literally failing an entire generation.

I suspect we could never provide enough services to meet demand. Services at the lower level are more than they used to be. We need to build a healthier society in the first place.

I was diagnosed with complex PTSD, an eating disorder and clinical depression, after two separate rapes, one when I was 11.

I had various NHS treatments, inpatient and outpatient as well as pharmaceutical interventions. Interestingly, I happened upon a woman with pretty much the exact same trauma as me who is in the US, no diagnosis and very limited medical intervention. Over our lifecourse we have come to very different outcomes (she is addicted to crack cocaine).

It has is interesting to see people saying how bad it is (I worked in the NHS as a midwife, up until a year ago so have an insider view) and how varied perceptions and opinions on this thread are for something as simple as phoning an ambulance. I think politically, the general narrative that the NHS is 'on it' knees' is music to certain ears who are circling the NHS vulture like ready to privatise. They want us to believe it's failing in order to justify the economic decision to dismantle it. But it doesn't fail people generally. It generally does very well but like all large organisations it's not perfect but in comparison to lots of other places it's fundamental to us.

The typos are appalling in my post, I am a bit shaky today

I suspect we could never provide enough services to meet demand. No, this is a myth intended to deflect from 8 years of underfunding. It's intended to make people think there's nothing we can do about it. But there is. We just need to stop putting less money into health services than other European countries. It's shameful.

I agree we need to put more money into health services. And for severe mental health problems intervention makes a massive difference. But I do think there is more of a labelling of fairly ordinary distress and upset as mental health problems. This does not apply to any of the stories told on this thread. But life is sometimes hard, and sometimes we will feel upset and down.

Hugs to you and your family cuckoonut.
NHS mentalvHealth Services are shit and not fit for purpose.

I think the desperate need to have a diagnosis is because mental health services are so restricted that there’s a perception that plain old being upset or troubled just won’t result in being taken seriously even if the individual is really struggling to cope.

. But I do think there is more of a labelling of fairly ordinary distress and upset as mental health problems

^ this

So sorry to hear what you are going through and she definitely needed to go to a&e but didn’t need an ambulance from what it sounds like.
Has she had a full psychological assessment as opposed to a psychiatrric one?
I’m only asking as I recently came across a situation where a man had been under psychiatric care since his mid teens, repeatedly attempting suicides and alcohol but no one had joined the dots. The man was disgnosed with an illness in his teens not to mention his parents splitting up which triggered this vicious cycle but no one had explored the reasons or even offered CBT. He had just been on repeated psychiatric meds which had done nothing. I was very surprised that he had never seen a psychologist as I thought it was something that was automatically offered?
I’m not saying this is the case for everyone but that all avenues should be explored if not already.

Psychologists and psychotherapists are rarer than hen's teeth.