To think the NHS was completely useless for this.

[cuckoonut]

My daughter has severe depression and a potential diagnosis of BPD in January when she turns 18. Recently she's been in an extremely dark place. She's been in and out of inpatient units since she was 14 so we're kind of used to the process of what happens when she attempts to end her life. Two weeks ago she took an overdose, she was taken to a&e, checked over and had a mental health assessment. They deemed her fit to leave and sent her on her way. She has been given no extra support since then despite us asking multiple times. Last night she attempted again. She took 16 Paracetamol with half a bottle of wine and intended on taking another box if we hadn't have stopped her going out. She almost collapsed about 3 hours after and we put two and two together. We called the ambulance and they said they'd send somebody out within 2 hours and to call back if anything changed.

We sat up and waited with her for about 45 minutes when her breathing became very painful, and she said if she didn't force herself to breathe she thought she would stop altogether. She was struggling to stay awake. My DH called the ambulance again to tell them. They said 9 minutes and to hold for a clinician. When we were put through to the clinician she said, quote "from a medical stand point there's nothing wrong with her. She doesn't need to be seen" despite her not being able to breathe and taking an overdose just hours earlier. She kept insisting DD was fine and that she would cancel the ambulance. We asked to talk to somebody else and she kept refusing. We hung up and called again but they kept saying we had to speak to the lady. The ambulance arrived as she was saying she would cancel it. The paramedic checked DD over and said it was best if we went to A&E because of the dose and it was an attempt to end her life. Then her radio buzzed and they asked "why are you still there?" She called up the lady we had been on the phone to and they had a long conversation outside. She then came back and said it was unnecessary to come to the hospital and that DDs mental health team would be informed on Monday. DD has been up all night vomitting and wanting to hurt herself. They didn't even give her a mental health assessment like they're supposed to when somebody tries to commit suicide. She's a minor for God sake!!

You should have taken her.

Starlings27 I think people are saying she should've been seen, but not via an ambulance! And 16 paracetamol (depending on her weight), likely wouldn't even require blood tests, given the new guidelines.

Tbh I'm very suprised that once the paramedic arrived and said they would take her in to A&E to be assessed, they then refused to take her. A 17 year old with mental health problems, who might have taken 16 paracetamol (she might have taken more, might have taken less, how would you or the paramedic be sure?), I'd be taking her in to A&E to have her bloods done to check her paracetamol level and be treated if necessary. I don't think I could leave her in that situation tbh because what if she did something else to hurt herself? I'm not a paramedic though, just a overly cautious nurse!

Take her to A&E NOW. Haven't rft but this is urgent. She could have liver failure. Please go.

I agree about being wary of a bpd diagnosis.

It sounds as though she needs to be seen by the crisis team and readmitted to the in patient unit for her own safety.

Mental illness is increasing whilst mental health provision is decreasing, so it’s a rough ride for the population at the present time

Brokengirl see above from wineandtiramisu

What makes you think she’s wrong and you’re right?

TW but years ago I took 16 paracetamol and needed treatment to avoid liver damage. I am quite petite. The difficulty breathing is also concerning.
The way your DD has been treated is appalling OP

A person can die with that level of overdose, especially if the liver has been damaged by previous overdoses. Just for all of you talking about 'cry for help'.

the ambulance service is on its knees.

A person can die with that level of overdose, especially if the liver has been damaged by previous overdoses

Possibly, but ambulances aren’t for possibly are they? If they got a shout for a cardiac arrest, RTC, someone not breathing for example they’d have to prioritise. It’s sad, but it’s the truth.

Experience, glint, see my other post. As I said I didn't rtft anyway.
We also don't know OP's DD didn't take more but isn't saying.
plus she had difficulty breathing.
It is appalling the way OP and DD have been treated. If 111 woman had said get yourselves to A&E she would have.

OP I am so sorry to hear you are going through very tough times. The NHS does not have enough resources to handle mental health issues well. I feel the main objevtive here would be to try and help her with the suicidal thoughts to try and avoid a similar situation again. Can you contact the crisis team? Is she under a psychiatrist who could see her soon? A care worker who could request an appointment urgently?

wineandtiramisu has quoted the care guidelines for this situation

I am shocked that ambulance cancelled when she had breathing difficulties. Please tell me you’Ve taken her to A& E by other means. That level of paracetamol requires medical attention urgently

I took an accidental overdose of paracetamol and lemsip capsules when I was a teen, I'd forgot how many I'd had and when I last had them. I was violently sick for days and they kept me in hospital for two nights. 111 sent an ambulance for me. Could have got a taxi but they thought it was an emergency. I can see why 16 paracetamol and half a bottle of wine on purpose would be an emergency!
I would take her to A&E yourself today OP. She needs checked over and she definitely needs help.

What guidelines are those? Just googled it and still pretty sure that in this situation she should of at least had her bloods done.

www.rcem.ac.uk/RCEM/Quality-Policy/Clinical_Standards_Guidance/RCEM_Guidance.aspx?WebsiteKey=b3d6bb2a-abba-44ed-b758-467776a958cd&hkey=862bd964-0363-4f7f-bdab-89e4a68c9de4&RCEM_Guidance=6

Presumably the ones used by trained staff on a daily basis rather than ones a random can google

Presumably the ones used by trained staff on a daily basis rather than ones a random can google

Aye, those ones.

The unfortunate reality of the emergency services right now if they are having to make decisions about which life and death situation they attend right now. They don't actually have enough resources to attend to every emergency, let alone something such as this.

Yes, I understand it is difficult for you and your daughter. But if you are not happy with the provisions for MH and the NHS then you should start mithering your MP etc to address the wider issues.

A&E is only for one off situations really and they will only really treat the issue as it presents at the time, so the physical symptoms of a suicide attempt. It is not a quicker route to other services.

We don't know who wineandtiramisu is, or their credentials. Don't try picking on me, glintandglide. I think I know my own experience, I'm small but not freakishly so and needed treatment. The DD could be a 7st, 5ft1 teen, and as I and others have said, we don't know she didn't take more than 16/ something else, orshe could have tried something else to harm herself.
I don't even know what you disagree with. I think we all agree the DD needs to be seen today. Any overdose needs to be checked out, plus she needs mental health care.
Teenage girls and women with the toxic 'EUPD' label are too often dismissed as just attention-seeking.
I hope OP has taken her to A&E.

16 paracetamol and half a bottle of wine is a cry for help, not a suicide attempt
Totally true.
I don’t know why your DD had problems breathing as paracetamol does not affect you like that - you don’t stop breathing. A paracetamol overdose is a slow painful death as your organs shut down- it can take a week.
I agree with other posters, you shouldn’t have phoned an ambulance, it’s not an ambulance situation. You should have taken her yourself.

But in all honesty, we all know the NHS is crippled as far as mental health problems go. I don’t know what you expected paramedics and A&E to do on a Saturday night. I’m sorry for sounding brutal but you need to realise that with a lot of your daughters problems you are just going to have to help her as best you can and arm yourself with as much knowledge to help her.
There’s support groups online and if you live somewhere highly populated I bet there’s a physical support group for your daughter and for you too. The NHS simply cannot cope with the sheer scale of mental health problems people are suffering with.
I don’t like your AIBU. The NHS isn’t completely useless - if your DD has been in and out of units firvthe last 4 years then she has received a hell of a lot more treatment than most people with problems. The crisis team offered myhusband an appointment 5 months down the line - and reminded me that if he should kill himself in the interim could I make sure I cancel the appointment so someone else could have It!
You have two options -you either look for private treatment for your DD and pay for it OR you have to use all of the knowledge you have gained over the years about treatments your DD has received and help her yourself as bestbyou can. There’s lots of info online and visit your GP regularly to get prescriptions for your dd. There may be a drug she hasn’t tried which would really help her. Build a relationship with your GP.
I am sorry for you and your daughter. It’s really really hard- but we have to accept that the NHS isn’t capable of providing the levels of care that everybody needs from them for every health problem - so we need to be pro active and look for other ways.
I do hope your daughter recovers from her MHP. It’s a terrible thing to have, and to watch someone you love struggling can be as equally hard.

Actually yes A&E is a route to mental health crisis care, if necessary.

But it’s not about A&E the Aibu is about the ambulance

Actually yes A&E is a route to mental health crisis care, if necessary

Absolutely it is, I’ve recommended it to posters on here before who are clearly having a MH crisis.

Getting there is not cause for an ambulance unless there is an immediate threat to life.

@glintandglide

It's from the royal college of emergency medicine, not WedMD . Trained staff do Google things you know .