Bewildered - what is it?

[Prasky]

Dear Mumsnetters, I really feel I need the opinions of impartial outsiders in this matter and would be grateful for anything you can offer.

I will try to keep this as brief as possible but, apologies in advance as it will still be quite long. I really feel I need the opinion

Back Story:

Known these two women 7 years. They are the wives of two of my husbands good friends which is how I met them. I'm in my mid forties and they're in their mid fifties. Used to meet up once a week every Wednesday but gradually has dwindled down, due to various reasons. Now see each other maybe a couple of times a month.

There has always been a problem almost since the start of them blowing hot and cold. One minute friendly the next somehow not so. I try not to take it personally but it has been a recurring theme.

When I first mentioned it to my OH he was sure it was my imagination but then he started seeing if for himself. and agreed that, one in particular, seemed to have some sort of issue with me.

We have never had an argument or fallen out with any of them.

6 weeks ago

Hadn't seen them for a while. I went to find them in the beer garden while the men were at the bar buying the drinks. They were alone at a table. Usual greetings, smiles, how are you etc. etc. fine. But as soon as that's over one of the women, the one who is usually fairly ok, said "I'm just finishing my story", turned away from me to the other woman and , both completely ignoring my presence, carried on a conversation.

I truly understand that these women are good friends but I do thing this was rude. Surely the best thing to do is say " I was just telling X about..." and include the newcomer in?

Or if it's private, given them that discreet look, or just say "I'll tell you later" meaning when they talk alone again. Isn't that what most people would do?

In hindsight, I should have said 'I can see you're having a private conversation I'll leave you for a bit" and left them to it but I just didn't think. It took me completely by surprise and I think I was a bit stunned by the rudeness.

Last Wednesday

Met them in the pub. They seem to naturally segregate when they go out - all round the same table but with the men on one side and women on the other. I sat next to the 2 women and it seemed ok at first. Then one proceeded to talk to the other and again I found myself totally ignored while they just carried on the conversation. I noticed that when ever anyone said anything remotely funny they would laugh but if I would say an amusing comment their faces were just straight. I don't expect them to be rolling around at my sparkling wit or repartee but I just felt singled out in some way. I started to wonder if I was saying something offensive without realising it but I wasn't. They were just off the cuff remarks. As an example, my husband as started a new job and is having a tough time with some of the staff. When he was telling them this one of his mate's said 'I'm sure you'll win them around! and I said 'Course he will! He won me round, didn't you?' really alluding to the fact that we met at work. Just general things like that.

The conversation got going with the 2 women again and one of them said she had a bad night's sleep the night before so told her I had also woken up early and couldn't get back to sleep because I'd had a funny dream and it kept making me laugh. I had no intention of telling the dream as I know how boring other people's dreams usually are! But they asked me what it was. Literally about 70 seconds in the woman said "Oh god this is like a movie". There is nothing wrong at all with comment but it is HOW she said it and was obvious, from her tone, her voice, and her expression, that it was meant as a nasty stab. I could understand, maybe, if it was dragging on and on but it wasn't. Anyway, I let it pass and carried on. When I got to the funny bit that kept making me laugh, the same woman said "You're never right you aren't, I'm telling you". Again, this can be an amusing comment but it was how she said it, with barely concealed venom and spite and a half laugh and sneer. And no, the dream was nothing sick or perverted or unsavoury in any way. It was children's comic book type of funny.

In hindsight, I should have just realised they didn't want me and talked to the men. I do not have any of these issue with the men. But I keep thinking they will 'get over' whatever it is and I am never prepared for it so it catches me unaware and I seem to almost freeze in shock. They way they act is as if I am doing something really unacceptable, like wearing my cleavage to my knees and flirting with their men but nothing could be further from the truth. I never did this when I was young and single, I certainly don't do it now.

I also noticed there was a marked difference in how this women was talking and responding with me than to my husband. It was almost like a switch going on and off. To make it clear NO she definitely doesn't fancy him or anything like that. She sees him as a nice man, a good friend etc. The difference is in her conversation, expression, voice, tone and body language. Unmistakeable.

I asked her if she ever missed work and this is lead her recounting some of the really awful things clients have said to her before . She was understandably a bit worked up and upset repeating them it was more like anger directed as me, how she was saying it, as if there was something wrong with the question. She had a job commonly known to be very difficult but had never said anything about these incidents before.

To sum it up it felt like there was a lot of repressed anger and resentment that had built to such a level it was just seeping out and it was only aimed at me.

I have also just realised that they are both fine when the other one isn't there. To me this suggests they talk about me behind my back.

I don't know if this is relevant but it just came to me so I will mention it: I was bullied in high school by a particular girl. Years later she apologised and said she felt really bad. I asked her why she did it and she said 'because you were also so POLITE all the time!'

This did take me back a bit!!lol!!

I have also overheard someone saying I might look like butter wouldn't melt but 'there's more than meets the eye'.

I am wondering if I am appearing too good to be true and people are somehow thinking I'm putting on an act or I'm really up to no good?

I am just being myself. I am no saint not by a long way. But I don't deliberately go out of my way to put people down, or bitch behind people's backs or go along with the crowd for the sake of. I'm not argumentative, a bully or a show-off and, as far as I know, I don't have an annoying laugh!

When things similar have happened in the past I have just blamed myself and shrunk my self smaller and smaller or tried to bend myself out of shape to please and appease other people but I am not doing that. I cannot thing it is anything I am doing or saying that seems to be the problem but it might be just 'me', perhaps I've got an annoying voice or something etc. No one has ever said this btw.

If there is an issue I would prefer they said something. I don't see any excuse whatsoever for treating me like this.

Question 1

Is it me? I'm always willing to stand back and look at my own behaviour as I'm aware it's easy to offend people sometimes without realising.
Question 2

These incidents are obviously not going to stop. How should I carry on going forward. I've thought of several possibilities:

A) Just stop seeing them - this appealed at first but then I think this makes it seem like I am running away and I would rather deal with it. Also, why should my OH not socialise with his mates?
B) Ask nicely and politely, "Have I upset you?" or something to that effect. I just feel this is pointless as they would deny it and probably say they were joking.
C) Sit with the men - I should have done that last night, if feel
D) If the do it next time, say "I can see you want to chat to eachother, I'll leave you to it" - and then sit with the men
E) Be on my guard in conversation with them ready to respond straight away. For example, when she said " oh god this is like a movie" say straight away 'oh I won't bore you with it then'. And when she said 'you're never right...' stop her and say 'what do you mean by that *Julie?' and make it very clear I know she's being passive-aggressive.

Or other? I don't want to inflame the situation but it needs addressing, somehow.

Just to be clear, my OH didn't see any of this as he was sitting on my opposite side mostly talking to his friends.

If you have reached this point, thank you for listening.

I think Ferrier may have a point. I imagine you're probably really nice, but there is someone in my circle that goes into far too much detail in everything she says. She lives on her own, which may mean she doesn't enough conversation, but it puts me off conversation with her, nice enough woman that she is.

I have just reread my post and it hasn't come across entirely as I intended... basically what stood out to me was that they think they can treat you like that, probably because you are a very kind and gentle person and if you're polite by nature they possibly don't think you will challenge them on this. This is absolutely their issue and not yours - they don't sound very nice people!

Option d

Don’t expend energy on them. They sound spiteful, petty and mean-spirited. I would cool on both of them and stop trying - they’re probably loving wrong-footing you. Don’t get sucked in when they’re on their own either, and be just as cool then. I used to agonise over this when I was a bit younger and got hurt by being deliberately excluded by variohs women. Not any more, I know who I am and fuck you if you want to be a bitch. Life’s too short to waste any of it trying to make people ‘like you’. They’re possibly jealous of something, but they are not worth a second of your attention.

Why some people feel the need to expend time and energy being spiteful to others is beyond me.

OP From your opening post I too wonder if it's because you have a tendency to over explain (and by default come across as overly nice). I'm the same, It was a habit to combat shyness, and it got me similar reactions. I only became conscious of it when my son described someone like me as a 'try hard'.

If it is that then it's a hard habit to break but when you manage it the rewards are great. I actually feel more authentic by not being long winded and I'm sure people who chat to me prefer soundbites as opposed to the full content of my head. If they want more info, they can always ask.

They do sound bitchy though, so even if it's not what I said soundbites might work anyway, the less they know about how you think / feel, the less they'll have to bitch about.

Sometimes people are just cunts and it's a waste of energy trying to work out why. I would never meet up with them again.

jellycat1 Sat 11-Aug-18 14:21:20
Life is waaaay too short to be analyzing two other women to that extent. And in the nicest possible way, it's a little short to finish that whole post, which i didn't. Read enough to say - seek life elsewhere. Ignore them in the politest way. Don't be needy and clingy. They might start gravitating back to you. If they don't, then on these occasions, stick to the guys and don't give it another thought.

My thoughts exactly.

Find new friends. Life’s too short.

The overly polite comment struck a chord with me as I have had a similar comment said about me. A lady I job shared with, very popular, trendy lady who we got on really well together, said to me "I would have bullied you at school, your too nice" but we were good friends and colleagues...not sure why being too nice or polite makes you a target, but it does seem to be a common theme

Jenasaurus - I think if some people perceive you as being 'too nice' they can speak to you as they like with no repercussions as you are ' too nice' to retaliate - either that or they see getting a response to their unpleasant comments as some sort of challenge! Sad really.

My guess is that these 2 women have probably known each other for many years before you appeared on the scene and have a close friendship meaning that when the 3 of you are all together, you will always be the 'outsider'. Your personality is likely completely irrelevant so I wouldnt tie yourself in knots trying to analyses your behaviour to work out what it is about you they don't like.

Life is definitely too short to spend so much time with people like that. A night out every couple of months sounds reasonable but twice a month is a chore!

When you are all together I would just carry on being yourself and try not to let it get you down.

I really hope you have other friends too as these 2 ladies are really not proper friends

Sounds very much like a group of “friends” dh and I have. I say friends. No friends of mine. A big group. I was accepted by the men but not the women. I’m too nice and generous and definitely the wrong nationality. No non French women were welcomed in the group. The nicer I was and the more I tried to do things for them and to ensure they had a perfect time in my home the more they were jealous and hated me. They even bitched about me in my own home.

My advice is definitely to be aloof with these women. Speak to the men. Find better couple friends. Spend less time with them. It’s a game with no way of winning and you’ve already lost.

They sound like bitches. I'd just talk to the men which is usually more fun in these situations anyway.

Thank you so much to all of you who responded!

Sincere apologies it was a very long post I know!! I was conscious about drip feeding!!

There are quite a lot of posts but answer a few questions:

The woman DID say 'you are never right, you aren't! I'm telling you!'which I felt meant I wasn't right in the head or there was something 'off' about me.

"
No, I am not an ex wife

No I am definitely not a long winded talker/story teller. On average I will actually talk LESS than most members of a group.

But it's feeling a bit irrelevant. I think the main point is that I AM spending too much time worrying about this. They don't like me for some reason and that's really that, isn't it?

Still think it says more about them than it does you OP, anyone who is bad mannered and ignorant enough to treat you like that (whether they like you or not) simply isn’t worthy of your time or friendship. Think about it, you would never be so unkind even if you didn’t especially warm to someone would you?

They sound like assholes.
Don't associate with them. Start sitting and chatting with the men.

You are younger than them, you appear to have a happy and pleasant nature and perhaps this jars with them.
Don’t take their unpleasant behaviour to heart, as an earlier poster said «rise above it».
Sit with the men, be cool but polite with the women and watch them seethe!
Good luck.

That sounds tough op. I think I’d just accept that they’re bitchy and make other plans when your DH meets his friends. Spend your time with people who make you happy, as others have said, life is too short to be unhappy.

Some people won't like you. Some people will actively seek to alienate you from a group for no other reason but the fact they're arseholes.

Ignore, ignore, ignore.

There's a woman in my social group who didn't like me when we met. Initially I overthought it and worried about how I could 'fix' it. I gave up and stopped giving a toss and got on with enjoying time with people who do like my company and the irony of all ironies is that a few years later she started to seek me out and expected friendship. Obviously people change but a dickhead is a dickhead, so balls to spending time worrying over someone else's (wrong) opinion.

OP, you are way over thinking this - why?! They are not your friends, they never were. Why do you want friendship with 2 people that very clearly don’t like you?

They don't like me for some reason and that's really that, isn't it?

Exactly. People can dislike other people for basically no reason at all. Just don't bother yourself with it. You will meet plenty of people in life who won't like you and you will meet plenty of people you won't like.
That your DHs are friends doesn't mean you women have to be friends too.

I have this problem, I worry loads about why some don’t seem to like me. It’s not easy to just get over it and stop thinking about it. It totally eats me up with paranoia and self doubt sometimes. As much as I know there’s nothing I can do and I should just move on and spend me time with people who like me , some times I can’t stop letting it get to me. I’ve also had this problem
Since school. I’m also quite polite and “nice” .

I've had this. I've been bullied off a forum for being too polite and helpful. It's totally bizarre!

Who knows what's going on with them. Luckily, they are just the wives of your husband's friends, so who cares? Back off from them and focus on your own friends.

Do make clear to your husband that you won't be spending too much time being iced by his friends' wives. He can either go alone, or hang out with your friends instead, or ensure that the group does not polarise male vs female and that you are fully included in the conversation.

Some of you could really benefit from "The subtle art of not giving a fuck" book. Really. It's great way to realise you really don't have to give a f*ck about certain things. Quite an eye opener