If someone identifies as a different race....is it any different from gender?

[Jackieyoulooknice]

Just saw this story on Facebook..

fabiosa.com/ctnws-rsvlk-aumgr-pbdmt-rw-proud-to-be-now-a-black-woman-former-flight-attendant-changes-the-race-with-tan-injections/?utm_source=wikrmain&utm_medium=post&utm_campaign=ssr

This woman doesn't identify as a different race she just wanted to be black, but everyone seems to be mocking her. If someone felt they identified as a different race would this be any stranger than someone who felt the same about their gender and became transgender?

Not trolling but just surprised at all the mocking that I saw people doing quite openly when most people seem accepting of transgender people.

I haven't really got an opinion on it as I find the situation so hard to imagine.

But nobody is racially pure. Everyone is mixed race. So the lines are to a large extent arbitrary as to what you identify as. In the US it used to be that even if you looked white, if you had African blood, you were still considered black.

Sex is considered binary, male or female, but some consider this notion outdated and not representative of reality, others don’t.

My partner is “non binary”.

He doesn’t think anyone with a penis should be in women’s spaces and is very closed off about his feelings. He has tried to “get over it” and absolutely can’t. It’s ingrained, it’s not a fetish and he has a good heart.

Stop tarring everyone with the same brush, whilst I support that women (and men) do not want someone with opposite parts in their spaces, and I’ve laughed and been shocked at some of the feminism threads and do agree with a lot of the points, trans is a confirmed medical condition.

Changing race makes no sense because if you have white patents and heritage then there was no chance of you ever being born another race, sex is different and we all have differing levels of sex hormones and there are people who have been born even with both sets of parts or internal sexual organs of the opposite sex as their external.

There is more of a blurred line between sex and gender than there is race.

And the problem isn’t with people who genuinely feel they are trans, who are usually quiet and very badly treated day to day, it’s with the fakers using it to their advantage.

Exactly the same as someone faking cancer or other conditions.

No one would ridicule everyone with cancer because an idiotic few pretend to have it to their own gain.

The issue that I have with it, is that it used to be Transsexual, not Transgender, that was the condition.

We've proven that gender is make believe, a construct created to oppress Women.

So if you are Transgender, you are following a made up concept, like the people who think they are fairies and other people, who are classed as mentally ill.

Until the Transgender movement came along, spurred on by Men, Feminism was doing an OK job at breaking down barriers.

""There is more of a blurred line between sex and gender than there is race.""

Well there isn't because Gender doesn't exist, sex organs and hormones do. Those that felt out of place, having to life within the narrow perimeters of imposed gender roles, should have joined the movement to get rid of the concept of Gender.

Everyone is non binary in terms of gender. Gender is a social construct and people don’t fit neatly into the boxes society has constructed.

Changing race makes no sense because if you have white patents and heritage then there was no chance of you ever being born another race, sex is different and we all have differing levels of sex hormones and there are people who have been born even with both sets of parts or internal sexual organs of the opposite sex as their external.

But at the moment the sperm and the egg come together, you are either XX, XY, or, in rare cases where the process doesn't proceed as it should, something more complex combination. If you are XY, there is no chance of you being born a woman. Yes, there are intersex people - abnormalities can occurs on the sex chromosomes as they can on any chromosome. But if you are XY, you are not, from the moment of conception till the day you die, a woman.

Except you’re missing the point where I also said the lines are more blurred with regards to sex.

There is no point in asking a question and then ignoring key points in the answer when quoting.

There is more of a blurred line with regards to sex and my partner claims “non binary” as after years of thought and deliberation he has decided that it’s ok to feel as he does while still retaining his parts.

Yes, gender is a social construct. One that has caused heaps of confusion because members of opposite sexes to their assigned genders feel they cannot live following the roles they have been destined to follow.

And I do agree that it makes more sense to chuck “gender” out of the window than single people out as being ill for refusing to comply with it.

This whole conversation ignores that hormones vary though and we do not nearly fully understand the conscious mind and why so many people feel like this. it’s very possible for someone to feel torn in the body they were born with.

Also why do these threads never seem to acknowledge that there is also a fairly large amount of transmen?

It’s not just “men” who do this and feel like this. What about the people who were born as women who are caught up in this mess?

Changing race makes no sense because if you have white patents and heritage then there was no chance of you ever being born another race,

Not true. Lots of white parents have given birth to black babies, it's then turned out there is some black heritage in the family and the characteristics have skipped a generation or so.

If a Y sperm fertilised the egg with which you grew from, there is no chance of you being female.

Btw not about to “vanish”. Have things to do and will come back to read the thread later!

I think we tend to focus on transwomen rather than transmen as - they are the most visible and loud right now, squeaky wheel and all that.
But more importantly women as a collective are much more vulnerable than men as a collective. Women’s spaces being invaded is a much bigger issue.

I don't agree that the lines are more blurred around sex - quite the opposite. Lines around race are, as most people have pointed out, hugely blurred. With sex, for more than 99% of the population, the lines are not blurred at all. The remaining small per cent have diagnosable intersex conditions.

Yes, some men have less testosterone than others. That in no way makes them somewhere in between men and women. 'Man' is term that describes the huge range of people who have XY chromosomes.

And, re transmen, I don't think feminists exclude them from the conversation at all - in fact, I think you often see feminists musing why they are not more visible (answer: because they are female ...)

We talk about transwomen more because a) this is why the clash with women's rights occur, and b) this is who the narrative is being driven by.

You can't change race any more than you can change sex. People can be mixed race, but they can't be "mixed sex".

And, no, I am not referring to intersex conditions which are the result of genetic issues. (Bowlofbabelfish, who posts on this board, is a geneticist and can put this more eloquently and accurately than I can, but I think my meaning is clear.)

The whole point is that being a different race from anyone else SHOULDN’T feel different. How can you know what any race feels like unless you're part of that race? Pretending you are is not the same.

And I do agree that it makes more sense to chuck “gender” out of the window than single people out as being ill for refusing to comply with it.

A large majority of society refuses to comply with gender on a daily basis and aren't accused of being mentally ill. I do, every day. I'm not 'cis'. I beg you to find me anyone who truly, truly identifies with what cis supposedly means. I do typically masculine things and dress in a gender-neutral or masculine way. I'm a woman though. I've never once been called mentally ill.

Where the mentally ill bit comes in is when people who don't comply with gender constructs, like me, think this is because they must actually be the opposite sex. There's a bit of an issue there isn't there, because that doesn't make logical, or scientific, or biological sense. You can't be the opposite sex just as you can't be a doughnut, or a hairbrush. Usual disclaimer about people with intersex conditions, blah blah.

I don’t agree with the “cis” thing btw, actually actively hate the term.

This is quite a good article explaining the difference -
www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/12/comparison-transgender-people-rachel-dolezal

If I wasn’t on my phone I’d try and find it or maybe someone here knows the video as it was here I saw it posted but there’s a video on YouTube of a (Swedish?) white woman with blonde hair asking people whether if she identified as a man would they accept it? They all said yes. She then goes on to say she identified as being 7 foot and would they accept it. They were like ummmm... I guess? She said she identified as being a Chinese woman and would they accept it? They said no. She asked why. There was a lot of ummmms but no answer. Very interesting video, I urge you to watch it if you haven’t.

No it’s all lies you can’t be black if your white and you can’t be a man if your a women

Often light skinned black people or mixed raced people I’d as white because it makes their life easier they get to escape racism or have been raised with largely white parents ina white community

Jewish people lie to escape anti semites

Men lie about being women because their mentality unwell

Totally agree lines are more blurred with race and more defined than other sex my friend has 4 child who all look white her husband is mixed raced very dark but all 3 child id as mixed raced

My other friend who is mixed raced Asian and white who is married to a white guy ID herself and her children as white

SchrodingersMeowth

And the problem isn’t with people who genuinely feel they are trans, who are usually quiet and very badly treated day to day,often because your living a lie but worst of all forcing everyone else to be complicit in it so o wouldn’t be happy at all if a M toF trans was allowed use the females showers at work and they would be allowed if I complained I would get in trouble dose that lend it self to me feeeling good about trans people I could literally loose my livey hood if I don’t go along with a lie

I think there is a lot of similarities if you accept what are commonly called ‘sex’ and ‘gender’. Sex being your biology and gender being the social construct. This is also true of race and culture. Race is mostly biological fact. Then there is the cultural aspects of race which are much more fluid. I know lots of white people who have adopted many cultural aspects of the black community. Although strangely you don’t see young white people dressed like, Chinese people using Chinese slang and listening to Chinese music.

Everyone is non-binary. Thosr who declare it as an identity just think they’re on some sort of higher plane of knowledge than the rest of us dimwits who just lumpenly accept or boring cis-ness.

Exactly sausagebap.

It's interesting how much more acceptable it is to claim to be the opposite sex than it is to adopt a different racial identity.

Because transgender is vastly more implausible, as there's no overlap between the sexes. Sex is a binary - there is no third sex - whereas race really is a spectrum.