If someone identifies as a different race....is it any different from gender?

[Jackieyoulooknice]

Just saw this story on Facebook..

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This woman doesn't identify as a different race she just wanted to be black, but everyone seems to be mocking her. If someone felt they identified as a different race would this be any stranger than someone who felt the same about their gender and became transgender?

Not trolling but just surprised at all the mocking that I saw people doing quite openly when most people seem accepting of transgender people.

I haven't really got an opinion on it as I find the situation so hard to imagine.

But not all black people are prone to sickle cell anaemia. Just those who originate from specific areas where malaria is very prevalent. Its not a "black" thing per se.

But not all black people are prone to sickle cell anaemia. Just those who originate from specific areas where malaria is very prevalent. Its not a "black" thing per se.

Yeah talking about Blacks is like talking about Eurasians and lumping them all in one massive group.

But there are real differences between ethnicities.

The way I look at it, people who are transgender believe they are the other gender and should have been born in a body with the physical characteristics of the other sex. This belief has been extensively studied and a diagnosis attached to it. It is an actual medical condition.

If people presented at their doctors' surgeries with a genuine belief that they were Chinese rather than White British, and extensive studies were conducted to establish that this was a distinct clinical condition, then yes, it would be the same. But they don't, as far as I can tell.

What's next though? Identifying as a different gender, identifying as a different ethnicity....what about identifying as a much younger person. "I'm not 65, I identify as a teenager and so my sexual interest in other teenagers is completely reasonable" how far down the slippery slope til we get to this?!

So, this is a true story, but, there was a boy born in Thailand. His mother was Thai and his father American; however, his dad left when he was a baby, so the boy only knows and speaks Thai and has never visited America and cannot speak English at all. Only the boy has white skin, blue eyes and blonde hair and doesn't look Thai at all. So, what is he? Legally and culturally he is Thai, but society would judge him as being white. So, what is the answer? Well, from the boys perspective, perhaps he feels he is neither Thai or American, neither white nor Asian. Perhaps, he just is who he is and identifies as himself.

This was the case for one boy, but many people over the world feel like they don't fit into the boxes that society has built. Many people don't feel that they are simply just black, white, hispanic or Asian or whatever. Many people don't feel that they are simply male or female or whatever they were born as. It saddens me that as a society we can't be more accepting of people for who they are rather than what they are.

icelolly99

But that's silly, ice. It implies that people with gender dysphoria are deciding to feel as they do. They are not. They have a medical condition.

That's like saying, cancer?! Whatever next? If a disease can attack and change the cells in your body, what else can they do? What if they start attacking the furniture? What if they take over Parliament? Who knows where this slippery slope might lead?

It's moronic.

twoblue It can be enormously difficult for mixed race people to find an identity. It’s not quite the same but I have one British parent and one French. I grew up in Britain but I’ve always related more to my French parent, the French culture etc. Does that mean I can say I identify as French when I’m clearly British and speaking in a weak Yorkshire accent? . I would be called a pretentious twat at best.

Obama was an interesting case since he was raised by his white Mother but still identified as black. I say this is interesting purely because a PP pointed out that a black person will have been raised ‘black’ therefore their race is ingrained. Clearly not in Obama’s case.

Biologically, you are either one race or another as you can either be a man or woman. But mentally, you can be whatever the fuck you want. There are people in the world that ‘identify’ as unicorns so...

I think you can change race (but changing skin colour is not race). Eg in my religion/race (Judaism) people can convert. It’s not an easy process but there is a recognised procedure to do so. Same as a person could move to Ireland or England and integrate over many years and become Irish, English, etc.

So I think you often can change your race and race is about culture rather than genetics alone. I don’t think changing your skin colour artificially makes you a different race though.

But nobody ‘identifies’ with having cancer. They HAVE cancer.

It’s actually quite insulting to state it’s an identity

Interestingly I read about an American woman’s who Identified as black as she was adopted by black parents and raised in the black community and thought she was black (but was light skinned). When she was a pensioner she found out her biological parents were in fact white Portuguese people. Is she black? Is it anyone’s business if she chooses to be?

What does identifying as black mean though. Black people aren't one homogenous mass. Which "type" of black to pick? Decisions, decisions...

penggwyn

But surely that is the point? People with GD have a mental health issue which clouds their perception of reality? They believe they are women when they are not.

I get hypnagogic illusions from time to time. They look very real to me and I can tell you about them in detail.

But they are not real, they do not physically exist.

*Pengggwyn

JohnnyMcGrathSaysFuckOff

I don't see why that matters. The point is that they believe it. Rightly or wrongly, they have a condition that makes them believe something. It isn't a pretence.

So why aren’t there more people who have the condition which makes them believe they are a different race?

Genuine question.

I fundamentally do believe that if a man with a honking great penis dangling between his legs is allowed by society to identify and be treated a woman then a women such as Rachel Dozeal etc should be 100% allowed to identify and be treated a black woman.

Either we believe 'I was born in the wrong body' and therefore anyone can be whatever they 'feel' they should be, or we don't.

Yes trans-racialism - and trans-speciesism (look it up) - exposes the whole trans debate for the nonsense it is.

Although actually like a pp above I'm actually more persuaded by trans-racialism. Google the singer Halsey - a blonde white woman who identifies as black and in fact has a black father.

Similarly all the DNA testing sites that show you your racial heritage - if it turns out you're black but have European or Jewish DNA farther up the family tree then that's still legitimate and part of your DNA.

Race is far more intangible than sex but at the same it does - I believe - have biological effects which is why people from certain races may be more at risk of certain diseases eg diabetes.

So do we base objective reality on someone’s belief now?

Because that is a slippery slope.

Do I have the right to tell someone that the god they believe in is false and they must believe in the god I believe in?

That my age is different?

That I am richer than I believe?

I actually identify as Swedish. I've always felt I should have been Swedish. I expect my passport to arrive any day now.

So, that chap who identifies as a young girl, is he half right? All right?

I think we as a society have to decide if it's all or nothing. He is so more little Emily than Steve is suddenly Susan. But at the moment we have two tiers where some people can be whatever they want and others are ridiculed.

The whole 'born in the wrong body' argument is fallacious. We are our bodies. There isn't an us that is separate from our bodies. Some people are unhappy with aspects of it, whether that is our skin colour, hair colour or biological sex. If someone highlights their hair, it doesn't make them a natural blonde. Similarly, dressing in different clothes or operating on parts of their body doesn't change their sex and dying their skin doesn't change their ethnicity. Our DNA doesn't change to correspond with such choices.

What is interesting is the types of choices that change outward appearance that are acceptable and unacceptable and why. No one is bothered if someone dyes their hair. Hair straightening has become a bit political hot potato in some circles. Presenting as a different race is hugely controversial. Cross-dressing was once regarded as a closet activity, but is now accepted as a necessary part of allowing people with gender dysphoria to have happy lives, but competing in sports events as if of the other biological sex is causing a lot of upset. Basically, the litmus test seems to be the extent to which the person's choices are private ones that don't affect other people.

This is an interesting one because it's blindingly obvious that you can't change your genetic make up (which I assume is what constitutes the biology of race) or your chromosomes (which identify you as male or female). Yet somehow people who decide to identify as a different sex are able to accuse those who wish to discuss the impact on women's rights of transphobia whereas it is the revers with self-identification of race (the person self-identifying as a different race is accused of racism).

There is also a disconnect in relation to men dressing as women (which is okay) and people dressing in outfits of other races (which is often called out as racist).

Correct me if I'm wrong but arn't race and culture two different things in the same way sex and gender are?

Your race would be your physical characteristics and parentage, genetics. Where as your culture is the way you are raised, socialised, treated by society, heritage, history etc.

So you could be Caucasian and identify, follow and conform with Japanese culture, but you can't become of the Japanese race.

The same as a man can identify and conform to women's gender, but they can't physically change their sex to female.

FYI there is a middle aged man in Canada that lives as a 6 year old girl. He has adopted parents and everything.

There’s a MASSIVE outcry at any kind of cultural appropriation. Appropriating sex seems to be just dandy though, almost celebrated (see stunning and brave).

If I black my face up I’m pretty sure stunning and brave will not be the words used to describe me.