AIBU to be gobsmacked that SIL feels entitled to put DD in danger

[Sweepouttheashes]

SIL hasn’t spoken to me since Easter, when i called her and her husband out for physically assaulting their child, and calling social services and the police. She and her husband went DARVO about it (Deny, Attack, Reverse Offender and Victim). They live very near us and their children and ours are very close - DH is still spoken to but limits his involvement to facilitating the kids seeing each other.
SIL asked DH the other day if our DD, age 9, could accompany her DD age 7 on a coach trip to see FIL. FIL lives three hours away. Coach doesn’t have a toilet on it, makes multiple stops to pick up passengers/give toilet breaks. No one to supervise the kids, they are totally at the mercy of strangers.
DH and i said no, DD is too young. Too much potential for something to happen to them.
SIL is now having a huge adult tantrum at DH, accusing me of:
Ruining her DDs adventure
Being an uptight, micromanaging helicopter parent
Her tantrums take the form of multiple calls/text to DH and FIL.
WTAF. How can she feel so entitled to put my kid in danger? I know she isn’t normal, and I try not to let her behaviour affect me too much, but honestly, who does this? Even if it is unreasonable not to let your child go unaccompanied on a 3 hour coach trip, its our parenting boundary and it should be respected!!

Different strokes for different folks

In this scenario all ties would be severed between my children and that side of the family where the SIL is present.
Yes it would probably cause huge ruptions but ultimately my children would not be exposed to that environment with her present and if that means no relationship with cousins, then so be it. It sounds awful

Ha! SO SO true about the white middle class issue and ss!
Seen it first hand in more than one occasion-almost as if we don’t investigatebor take things further based on postcode and how affluent a family is. Sickening

I think the OP is in Ireland?

But that is just crackers and your dn are unlucky to have such shit parents but lucky to have you and your dh watching out.

I'd call social services again to be honest, they need to know that SIL is happy to put a 7yo old a cross country bus with no adult supervision. When they question her about it she'll hopefully say "oh well 9yo was going too" which makes her appear even more irresponsible.

Certainly in the UK under 14y have to be accompanied by someone 16y and older - without that person they would be refused entry onto the coach. Proof of age with photo id is also required.

Bloody hell! I work in YR2 and I can't imagine putting any of my class on a coach without an adult with them!
Utter madness

O/T these types of threads really do my head in!

I know there are global posters, but this is a predominantly British forum, it's impossible to give any sensible advice or protocols when the poster is quite obviously posting from abroad, but doesn't disclose where. You cant give any salient advice.

FWIW in the USA, a 5yo can fly unaccompanied on an internal flight. I just thought I'd throw that spanner in the works just in case we are talking about Greyhound coaches.

I think the OP is in Ireland?

Well if she is I just looked up two coach companies in Ireland neither of which would allow under 12s to travel unaccompanied.

I have reported SILs idea and subsequent behaviour over it through to the free phone number for child services. You get a reference number so i know a record has been made.
Thanks all - didn’t realise this was something i could report.
Checked the coach website as hadn’t even thought about minimum age as it was never going to get that far. And it is a thing. Kids age 7-12 can go unaccompanied if you tell the coach service who is dropping them off and picking them up so I guess that’s ok then! Holy crap.
To be a bit fair to them, they only offer unaccompanied minors on their direct services (the ones with no toilet stops). Still don’t think it is appropriate.
SIL has texted DH to let him know DN is ‘crying in her room with disappointment’ over our refusal to let DD go.
What I meant in my first post about knowing SIL in’t quite right is that she reacts to any adverse event or criticism with huge histrionics, fuss, and often taking to her bed. It happened when FIL came out as bi, it happened over a house move, it has happened when DH and i have been -unwilling- unable to make family events and holidays. She is one of those people who gets ‘ill’ from other peoples behaviour - And it might be true, maybe her mental state is very fragile. She was unwell (panic attacks, unable to get out of bed for more than a few hours at a time) for about 6 months after FIL came out.
I just think it is manipulative. If it wasn’t for our DNs, i would happily never see her again. Which is sad - we had a good relationship until I started challenging her about her treatment of FIL and her and her BILs treatment of DNs.

@NewYearNewMe I am in the pacific.

Of course an unaccompanied coach journey is madness but reporting something that hasn't actually happened and won't happen to SS is beyond ridiculous.

For perspective my cousin was reminiscing the other day about being put on the train (in the guards' van) by his mum and retrieved at the other end by our gran.

Kids age 7-12 can go unaccompanied if you tell the coach service who is dropping them off and picking them up

As someone who used to do long couch (or bus as we call em in my neck of the woods) journeys, the seat directly behind the driver are reserved for unaccompanied children. This way the driver can keep an eye on them and ensure that no adults sit next to them. They are also seated by someone from the company and checked at stops. Similar to how airlines handle young children flying unaccompanied, but without a dedicated flight attendant.

To be fair, I only ever saw what I would call young teenagers using these seats, and would never dream of allowing a 7 & 9 year old to do it.

I don't care if the coach company allow it. As a parent I would not allow it or a child that age and she should have asked first before telling her DD about the 'adventure'.

Her presumption is why her child is upset.

She sounds like she has issues.

@SandyY2K, we found out about the scheme as she had told DN, who told DD. DD then came to us very excited with the news of what was happening.
DD took our refusal surprising well. Usually she would be v disappointed over something like this.
One wonders if there was a larger design.

If the coach company won't allow unaccompanied children on trips with toilet stops, and this is a long trip with toilet stops, just point out to her that the idea was never possible anyway. And I would hope that your FIL is telling her that, if they're travelling alone, they're not coming?

Yes FIL is against it.
Kids could prob do a 3 hour trip with no loo, but we’ll never know as they are not going! Or not DD, anyway.

Sorry @bibesea I instead your post - i imagine there is a direct service with no toilet stops to FILs city. SIL will have checked all this so she could counter any arguements we put up to that effect. But we went straight to ‘no, we’re not comfortable with this in any way, shape or form’ so she has fallen back on tantrums instead.
Luckily FIL and DH are naturals at grey rocking

Insane to send a 7yo on a three hour journey alone on public transport. Could your FIL not just show up the day before and say he's there to drive her himself?

Yes fil has offered to do this, and she jas offered to drive them. Sil has huffed and said they just won’t be going if they can’t go on the bus, as the whole point was to have an adventure.

Typo - DH has not she jas!

reporting something that hasn't actually happened and won't happen to SS is beyond ridiculous

Isn’t it. Totally and utterly daft.

And still to be considering your children engaging with this person - the mind boggles

I wouldn't do it, but I know that some airlines allow children aged 5+ to travel alone, and certainly by 7/9 some children are making international trips by themselves to see their other parent/family etc.

I wouldn't be comfortable with that, but obviously some people are.

DD took our refusal surprising well. Usually she would be v disappointed over something like this.

My kids do this when they're asking for something hairbrained and super adventurous. It's bc they are frightened and know already that they shouldn't be doing it.

At first I misread your post, OP. I thought the suggestion was that your SIL wanted to TAKE your kid and hers on the coach trip. I still thought you were reasonable to refuse, because of the duration, lack of toilet and chance of SIL not being a careful carer.

My eyes nearly fell out of my head when I realised you meant the two kids ALONE on the bus!!

Ignore these batshit suggestions altogether. If you must respond at all, just reiterate that contact happens when DH is present. No exceptions. So if that’s the concrete policy, you wouldn’t need to respond separately to every crazy suggestion she thinks up. It’s always going to be no to the kids going somewhere alone, right? And that includes no contact at all, if your DH is busy with other duties.

Dont rise to her drama llama baiting. Reiterate your policy calmly, like a broken record. Good on you for facilitating contact at all, to benefit your poor nieces. Not sure I could do it.

I would not allow this but at similar ages by dsis and I every summer made coach trips of five hours plus to visit grandparents and return unaccompanied. The coach did have a toilet. Maybe your dsil had similar experiences ? I do also know 9 year olds who fly internationally by themselves currently.
Struggling with a parent changing their sexual orientation later in life is also not that surprising. It is a significant change to adapt to.
None of this means that your SIL is either a pleasant person or a good parent of course.