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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

AIBU regarding Dobermann at nursery?

125 replies

Kezebel · 02/08/2018 13:19

First post, but I really need perspective.

DS has very recently started morning sessions at a nursery. When picking him up today, I noticed a large Dobermann in the office. It was on a lead.

One of the staff then went 'yes, DS has been watching [dog name] all morning.' Then went on to confirm that the dog belonged to the manager/owner. The office is in an entirely separate area to where DS is. So presumably the dog was around the children in the morning.

It's really set my spider senses off. I'm not assuming that this dog will be anything other than controlled...but it's a fuck off Dobermann. Around unpredictable toddlers. Would you be happy about this?!

I'm not there to keep him away from it, actively teach him to respect it/look but don't touch/leave it be (which I do regarding all animals, when I am with him)

AIBU to feel extremely uncomfortable about sending him to nursery within jaws reach slightly dramatic?! of quite a large dog that I know nothing about?

OP posts:

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 02/08/2018 15:48

I love dogs, have always encouraged dcs and gdcs to be the same, and often find the anti-dog hysteria on MN a great shame.

Having said that, I don't think I'd be happy with it at my Gdcs' nursery. And I can't see a ''risk assessment' being much use in such a case - I.e. ANY dog plus a lot of very young children whose behaviour can be unpredictable, and who can never be relied upon to remember or obey any rules. Not to mention any even occasional unthinking carelessness on the part of the staff. However good the nursery, let's not pretend that is never going to happen.

RainbowGlitterFairy · 02/08/2018 15:51

My huge dog is the soppiest creature on earth and adores small children, my children have grown up round him and my mum's dogs I would still not have been happy with a dog, of any breed, at nursery.

It's not just that you don't know the dog but you don't know the children, my boy has had kids in the park run up to him while he's on the lead and bark and growl at him, try pulling him around, jump on him to hug him etc, which to be fair he has been totally fine about and will just sit down while I tell the child not to do it, but I couldn't guarantee in a room full of children that one wouldn't hurt or scare him, I doubt he'd attack but he might scare a child or knock a toddler over trying to get away.

RossPoldarksFloozie · 02/08/2018 15:54

I wouldn't be happy about a dog in a nursery. It's for childcare not doggy day care.

Mummyschnauzer · 02/08/2018 15:59

I’m very much of the opinion all kids should be socialised round dogs and learn how to behave round them. But a Doberman (when I was a kid these were always the ones who attacked kids) in a nursey they can fuck off

Katjolo · 02/08/2018 16:01

Not okay. I would take my child out of the nursery and report my concerns to ofsted.

Original poster

Kezebel · 02/08/2018 16:03

Thank you for all your responses. My cousin's DS was bitten badly by a dog, perhaps why I am much more anxious around the topic (apologies for the drip feed )

Just been in to speak to the nursery, clarified that it was the fact that the staff member mentioned DS had been 'watching' the dog that concerned me, as the office is in an entirely separate area to the rest of the nursery, and he wouldn't be able to access the area independently.

Was told that the dog is walked through to be taken over the back (nursery backs onto a field) and if the children want to look/touch, that the owner has it on a tight lead...

I asked if there was a risk assessment for this, there wasn't a copy in the office or on the hard drive. They are in the process of updating it and will get a copy to me asap. I said I wasn't happy about this, as they could just produce a risk assessment for me between now and when I receive it.

There was never a risk assessment, was there?

And agree with posters who are saying a risk assessment isn't necessarily much use, as toddlers are unpredictable, and a dog may one day respond to that, no matter how well socialised/controlled they are.

OP posts:

GreatDuckCookery6211 · 02/08/2018 16:07

I don't think I would be happy tbh. I adore dogs including dobermans which imo aren't a volatile breed but this is a nursery setting where there shouldn't be a dog in walking through the building where young children can stroke or touch it.

Have you had chance to speak to any other parents to gauge their reaction?

Sleepyblueocean · 02/08/2018 16:16

I wouldn't be happy about that. My son's special school is full of very unpredictable children and has dog visits but they are far more controlled than.

mustbemad17 · 02/08/2018 16:17

I wouldn't be happy with the kids being allowed to touch the dog whilst on a 'tight' lead. I have no issues with dogs of any breeds, i have no issues with controlled meetings between dogs & kids. The way it was worded to you - and the lack of assessment being produced - would suggest things aren't being done as they should be

SavvySaver24 · 02/08/2018 16:21

If you aren't happy about it why not just take your child out of the nursery?

WeShouldBeFriends · 02/08/2018 16:22

You'd all hate our nursery, one of dd's favourite memories is of giving the farm dog a bath in the garden! But that's why we, and many, many others absolutely love it.

dimsum123 · 02/08/2018 16:27

Report to ofsted.

SavvySaver24 · 02/08/2018 16:28

For everyone saying report it, the OP has made it known now that she has an issue/concern so when it gets reported it will be pretty clear who it is. I for one would be throwing those people put if I ran that business.

DSHathawayGivesMeFannyGallops · 02/08/2018 16:29

I think kids should be socialised with dogs, but in a well controlled visit. I wouldn't necessarily be happy about a dog knocking about the place if the manager seems nonchalant about the risk. I think that's where complacency & accidents happen. Especially when you've got a number of small children involved. Toddlers poke and prod. Confronted with that in a group, even nice dogs can have enough.

I'd be saying this regardless of the breed, too. I wouldn't be happy if it was a yorkie, a jrt or a chihuahua, a big soppy boxer, a mongerel or a bouncy lab. I like dogs, but I'm careful with them.

CazM2012 · 02/08/2018 16:29

My childrens nursery has a dog in regularly (chocolate lab), one of the staff own him, he has just turned 2 and been going in since he was around 3 months old. We love it, there has been a risk assessment; all children are taught to be calm and gentle before being allowed by him, and he is very well trained. They always have signs up at entrances that he is in the building that day and happy to answer questions on him, the kids even sang him a song at the leavers concert because he has been a part of their lives while there, he’s brought my children from being scared of dogs to now we are able to have our own dog, it can be done properly but this doesn’t sound like it tbh!

CSIblonde · 02/08/2018 16:40

Hmm. I think you need to ask how the dogs contact with the children is managed. If its occasional 'visits' , the dogs on a short lead with close adult supervision of any child's contact with it, 1child at a time, I'd be ok. However, not many dogs would be OK with a large number of unpredictable, shouty toddlers, so I really don't think it should be a regular presence in the classroom or playground. Also can't see inspectors being too happy, unless it's office only & on a lead. .

BlueberryPud · 02/08/2018 16:43

which is no different to childminders having a dog

I wouldn't have sent my children to a childminder who had a dog either.

Dovesfly · 02/08/2018 16:44

So the dog was in the office, walked through the setting to access the field on a short lead and that is classed as 'roaming around the nursery?

The dog hardly any contact with the children from the sound of it and was under control at all times..... I don't see an issue!

mustbemad17 · 02/08/2018 16:54

I'd have loved DD's nursery to have a dog. Dogs are amazing for children. But managed properly. The thing that jumps out here is that they can't even produce a risk assessment - which suggests they don't have one. Which suggests actually there is nothing on file about them having the dog there. I know childminders' dogs are considered by Ofsted so stands to reason that any dog within a nursery setting should be registered too.
Kids & dogs are brilliant for each other. In controlled settings that take account of both sides' limitations

Kool4katz · 02/08/2018 16:55

Is the dog muzzled or just on a lead?
I have a larger breed dog and there's no way a tight lead will do much if he chooses to pull and jump up.
It's a definite NO from me.

Flightbite · 02/08/2018 17:19

*@SavvySaver2*4

Given the amount of PPs of this thread that have said it's a no, don't think OP will be the only person in nursery that's got concerns. So I wouldn't jump to the conclusion it was her if I were the business owner, in fact if she's raised concerns and happy with the response then she's less likely to report. It's the person that doesn't ask questions that could report.

With an attitude of deciding guilt without concrete evidence I'd hope your not a business owner because you're likely to be a bad one if you just decide to throw people out on an assumption!

NerdyBird · 02/08/2018 17:19

It seems unlikely they have done a risk assessment. If the one they are 'updating' is purely about the dog then it implies there is an existing one which you should have been able to see. If they mean they are updating an overall risk assessment then I'd ask why they're bringing the dog in before completing the paperwork. I wouldn't choose a childcare setting where there was a dog so I'd look to remove my child.

Wellthen · 02/08/2018 17:24

To those saying socialisation is important in a controlled way: that’s the exactly the point. The op wasn’t notified and didn’t see the dog with the children so had no way of knowing if this was off the cuff or a planned controlled activity.

I’m certain there was no risk assessment in place but the fact you’ve pointed this out will have given the nursery a kick up the backside. If you’re otherwise happy with his care I’d let it go once you’ve seen this ‘risk assessment’.

Those saying report to ofsted without knowing the full story are being ludicrous.

Original poster

Kezebel · 02/08/2018 17:24

Thank you all. I will be withdrawing DS. After talking to the nursery, I feel the trust has gone.

DS loves animals, and I agree with the many posters about how important it is for children to be around animals, @WeShouldBeFriends that sounds truly fantastic.

For all I know, the dog could have been being taken through the setting every day for a walk, the conversation I had with the nursery led me to believe this wasn't the first time. It wasn't muzzled. There are no signs anywhere about a dog. The issue I have is not being made aware about it, then the nursery not being able to produce any paperwork relating to it, which they should be able to. If something were to happen, how could they explain or justify it?

OP posts:

jelliebelly · 02/08/2018 17:25

Not ok - dogs and toddlers not a good mix in an unpredictable environment - some toddlers could have been really freaked out by it (mine would have been at that age!)

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