AIBU regarding Dobermann at nursery?

[Kezebel]

First post, but I really need perspective.

DS has very recently started morning sessions at a nursery. When picking him up today, I noticed a large Dobermann in the office. It was on a lead.

One of the staff then went 'yes, DS has been watching [dog name] all morning.' Then went on to confirm that the dog belonged to the manager/owner. The office is in an entirely separate area to where DS is. So presumably the dog was around the children in the morning.

It's really set my spider senses off. I'm not assuming that this dog will be anything other than controlled...but it's a fuck off Dobermann. Around unpredictable toddlers. Would you be happy about this?!

I'm not there to keep him away from it, actively teach him to respect it/look but don't touch/leave it be (which I do regarding all animals, when I am with him)

AIBU to feel extremely uncomfortable about sending him to nursery within jaws reach slightly dramatic?! of quite a large dog that I know nothing about?

I wouldn’t be ok with this, I used to work for a chain of nurseries in a senior position and the owner had a dog that they brought to another nursery and in the past occasionally to the nursery I worked in, I said under no uncertain terms would a child under my care go anywhere near it.

I would go in tomorrow and see if it's there. If not maybe say, 'no dog today?' See what they say then lead in from there. You should definitely have been told about this.

I would want to know in what context have the dog and your child been around one another. My son's special school sometimes has a dog in but meetings with the dog are very carefully controlled.

Goodness me some people see disaster around every corner! It's good for kids to meet dogs. You have no evidence at all that the dog was unrestrained in a room full of toddlers, I bet he was in the office all morning anyway. When the staff member said your ds was looking at the dog she probably meant he was taken to see the dog.
Just ask politely tomorrow how much interaction the kids had with the dog. Don't do anything silly like immediately pull him out of nursery .

No sorry - I would pull my child out of there. Dogs are unpredictable, larger dogs, if unpredictable will cause more damage - please trust me, I know 1st hand what an out of control large dog around small children can do.

Dogs are wonderful at providing comfort. Maybe the dog is used to calm fractious toddlers.
I think it's lovely. There was a dog at one of the nurseries I worked in. Oh, and three that used to wander around my doctors surgery.

@SugarIsAmazing I would LOVE to be a patient at that surgery!

I think they key point here is that it's not up to them to decide if they are happy for the dog to be around the toddlers. It's up to you, the parent.

If it was a special "dog socialising" day, you should have been informed beforehand and your consent should have been requested.

It's blatantly because some entitled dog owner's day care fell through and they selfishly decided it was fine.

Highly doubt it was to "socialise" the children

Thank you all, really appreciate it.

@Bazzlebear
@missyB1

Thank you for your perspectives. I agree that it can be a wonderful opportunity for children to socialise with animals, and I make every effort for my DS to, it is important. It's the knowing nothing about it that I'm not happy about.

Doberman's as a breed are not known to be volatile - i have had 5 over 25 years. Toddlers, on the other hand, are extremely unpredictable! I've had two of those too.

Wouldn't a risk assessment only be needed if the dog and toddlers actually shared physical space? If the OP could see the dog - presumably without going into the office - would the DC not also be able to see (but not interact) with the dog? I would presume that the DC are not allowed supervised or unsupervised access to the office as it is likely to contain all sorts of objects that could pose a risk - medications, hot drinks, cleaning fluids, scissors, drawing pins etc.

As others have stated, childminders often have dogs so a dog in a childcare setting isn't necessarily awful and irresponsible. You absolutely should ask some questions though, there should be a risk assessment in place and I'd want to see it.

There is a fanatical and often irrational view of dogs for some mumsnetters. I have heard some pearlers over the years. The 2 year old child is at fault when a dog turns for not reading the signs, leads are cruel and you should teach your 4 year old the correct submissive body language in case they are pounced on by a strange dog outside, there are no bad dogs or aggressive breeds etc. It's frightening. Tell ofsted. They'll rightly wipe the floor with them.

Am I the only one who would be thrilled by this and see it as a great form of socialisation for young children?

Fuck me, what a load of drivel. Yes, you probably are the only one or in the minority at the very least.

Fuck that with bells on.

What Madmarchpear said.

No, I definitely would not be happy with a Doberman around toddlers.

OK the dog may be behind a stair gate or similar but small hands can easily reach through.

Toddlers can be like grease lightening at times. It only takes one split second for concentration to slip. ☹️

At the end of the day they run the business and if they want the dog there they can have it there. They obviously don't want to leave their dog at home all day and that is completely right.

If you don't like it, then yes take your child to a different nursery. Personally I would have no issue.

Imagine the 'large dog in the office' was a 'large bottle of bleach in the office'. Objectively, the potential risk is the same as long as they both remain in a child-free room to which access is strictly policed.

I'd be no more concerned about a doberman than a labrador or pomeranian

I'd word this slightly differently and say "'I'd be no LESS concerned about a labrador or pomeranian than a doberman".

Breed is irrelevant. I have a (lovely, friendly, calm) dog and I have to be very vigilant to ensure he and my toddler are never alone together and that when we're all in the room together my toddler isn't running up and grabbing him. Toddlers don't understand how to be gentle and their erratic body language often makes dogs uneasy.

And that's my own dog! In a setting where there are MULTIPLE kids with a dog who is a stranger to them, I would have concerns. I wouldn't want to leave my toddler in that environment. Too risky.

The nursery manager brings a large dog to work - what?! I don't blame you for having concerns. Completely inappropriate.

It would be a deal breaker for me.

Speaking as a dog owner and lover I would be completely appalled and my child would be straight out of there.

I absolutely would not be happy with this. I love dogs but I send my child to nursery to be looked after and dick about with paint and crayons, not to be ‘socialised’ with a Doberman!

I assume you checked out the nursery and liked the set up before enrolling your dc, so if you felt you could trust the staff and owner/manager, why do you feel they might not handle this particular situation sensibly? I don't understand all the 'report them' comments. Why not just ask if you can have a word with the manager and explain that you were worried about the dog being on the premises and ask what kind of contact there is between dog and children. As much for the dog's sake as the children's it's unlikely to be wandering around the classroom.

I'd be surprised to find any dog in a nursery unless it was for a special occasion to familiarise the children with animals. The police used to bring a dog and sometimes a horse to primary schools but with plenty of safety precautions and warnings.

Nope wouldn't be having any of that. As you said what bothers you most Is that you had no knowledge of the dog being there. That's not on. I would go back in and have a chat with the manager, find out will this be happening again and if so I would find somewhere else.