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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Pre nuptial agreements

59 replies

staplegun88 · 01/08/2018 08:18

Anyone got one?

OH and I are getting married in less than 3 weeks, small do, just close family in Registry Office, meal in pub etc.

It is second marriage for us both, we both have grown up kids from our previous marriages.

Last night, OH was doing his accounts from his business in the house office, and I popped in with a cuppa. On the screen was a 'pre nuptial agreement form' which he was filling in with details of both our assets. I laughed and asked what was he doing?

He replied that he wouldn't get married unless we did this, and I signed it. Hmm.

I went off and did a quick google. Apparently, they are not legal, but can be upheld in certain circumstances. BUT... they have to be drawn up by lawyers, the other party must not be pressured into signing, and they must be done at least 21 days before the wedding. So, a fail on all 3 counts!

Regarding the assets, yes he has a fair amount, but then I am have assets too. Its a fairly even split tbh. I told him before we got engaged that the simplest thing to do, to ensure our respective children inherit our things fairly is to make a will as soon as we have got married.. Not all this pre nup crap. AIBU?

OP posts:
HollowTalk · 01/08/2018 11:25

Yes, the way he went about it was a massive red flag.

mariniere · 01/08/2018 11:27

Agree with others.
A properly drawn up and advised on pre nup isn't necessarily a bad thing. But what he said to you and the way he went about it.... I would be having serious misgivings about marrying this man. Sorry OP.

serbska · 01/08/2018 11:31

Yup.

Do not see the issue, and i fact think people are crazy to have second marriages with existing children in the mix and NOT get one.

No one thinks their lovely DH / DW will screw them over... but be realistic. Lots of relationships fail and people do not behave well always.

We got one. I had an existing house which had money from my parents in it. DH had business assets but no property.

bengalcat · 01/08/2018 11:34

I would make an appointment with a lawyer to discuss your current assets / will etc and what your wishes / plans are for them . Also be advised on what would likely happen if you divorced your husband to be or died first to your current assets . He may or may not have more / similar to you now but that could all change in time couldn't it for either of you ? Forewarned is forearmed . To not discuss this prior to getting married and take action together / unilaterally is madness . Second and subsequent marriages more likely to break down . Good luck .

becauseimbatman · 01/08/2018 11:37

a pre-nup is effectively a divorce agreement which is negotiated while everyone still loves each other.
Quite a good idea where there existing assets, children from previous marriages, businesses etc etc but as pp have said they are really shaky in the UK and the way your OH has gone about it means it is unlikely to be enforceable.
Have a think about the potential benefits OP and if it's something you want to do you can get a post-nup done properly after the wedding along with your Wills (which was also a sensible suggestion) to protect yourself and your family. If you decide to do this please take a picture of his face when you tell him his little ultimatum was a load of bollocks!

PanGalaticGargleBlaster · 01/08/2018 11:49

I think for many who have come out the back end of divorce to find themselves in much reduced circumstances it is understandable that second time round you might want to put in safeguards. Sadly its a hugely emotive issue as many seem to equate a pre-nup as declaration of a near future break up rather then a document that hopefully will just gather dust in a file and never have to be used.

Was is interesting is that more women are asking for pre-nups then men. Of those Brits who want them, almost two fifths of women would sign them to protect assets for their children, compared to only a quarter of men, a survey by The Co-operative Legal Services has shown.

AmIRightOrAMeringue · 01/08/2018 13:23

I think a prenup could be sensible if you have children already. However deciding about it without discussion, filling it in himself without knowing your thoughts on it, and doing it all very last minute, is a little worrying. Why has he not brought it up before?

SometimesMaybe · 01/08/2018 13:25

Pre nups are legal in Scotland (subject to strict rules and caveats).
In your situation it’s not absurd to have a prenup, but also your idea of a will protecting your children’s assets is a good one.

Bizzylizzyloo · 01/08/2018 13:41

I think it's slightly different if you have kids from a previous relationship - in those cases a prenup can be useful as a way of protecting them / their inheritance.

You know from your own experience that not all marriages last. If you are bringing different assets to the marriage and you have responsibilities to people outside of it, it can save a lot of heartache and misery if (god forbid) things do go wrong.

All that being said - your DP has gone about this in a totally unacceptable way and has scuppered any chance of you having a sensible conversation about it now, so he's an idiot really.

Not sure what the solution is - you need to talk to him obviously but I can see why this is a sour note three weeks out from a wedding.

IceCreamFace · 01/08/2018 13:49

I agree with others though that the way he did this was inappropriate. He should have discussed this with you in advance and although no prenup is legally binding you could have discussed the best course of action with a solicitor.

ReginaBlitzkreig · 01/08/2018 14:05

I agree with becauseimbatman.
Assuming you can get past the stealth and the ultimatum, a post-nip and new wills are the way to go.
Do get him to explain why on earth he decided to introduce the topic the shitty way though.

FabricBug · 01/08/2018 14:10

My friend owns a house outright, if he marries someone who has no assets I'd be worried about them getting divorced and having a stake in the house.

LoveInTokyo · 01/08/2018 14:22

Your husband to be sounds like a bit of a twat. I think his behaviour would concern me far more than anything you've signed.

First of all, pre-nups are not legally binding in the UK. In divorce proceedings, the starting point will be that your assets will be divided 50/50 unless there is a good reason for not doing so. A good reason might be the fact that one person is a SAHP and needs to continue to live in the family home with the children and to have an income.

If the two of you have substantial assets and dividing 50/50 is enough to meet both your financial needs, a pre-nup may be taken into account as a reason not to divide equally. However, this id dependent on both parties having taken independent legal advice prior to signing it.

You can't just print off a "pre-nup" you've found on the internet, make someone sign it and expect it to have any legal force. You'd be laughed out of court.

But are you sure you want to marry someone who doesn't trust you enough to share his money with you and doesn't respect you enough to talk to you about these things and make sure you both take legal advice if he wants to go down this road?

IceCreamFace · 01/08/2018 14:37

I completely forgot but I do know someone who had to sell their (previously mortgage free house) after a divorce. They were both almost retirement age when they got married (only lasted 5 years) and their partner had contributed nothing towards the house but still got half it's value in the divorce settlement.

Original poster
staplegun88 · 01/08/2018 14:38

Thanks for the advice and comments.
Yes he is a bit of a t'**t for just deciding literally last minute to do this. He did mention it briefly months back when we got engaged but to be honest I thought he was joking!
I have suggested we get married and then immediately do wills. He doesn't have one anyway, I do, but its out of date and will be more so when we are married. Wills cover what happens if one or both of us die, a pre-nup is more if we split. I get he wants to protect his assets (mostly business related) and so do I, but as said above, he can't just print something off the internet and expect it to be legal! That's why I laughed last night when I saw him doing it!
As far as respect and trust? Yes I trust him, he trusts me, but his ex took him to the cleaners hence his worry about it. I get that. Not talking to me about it sooner? He leaves everything to the last minute, I am kind of used to that and it does drive me mad as I am the type that makes lists about everything, and is super organised.

Will speak to him when he gets back from work later....

OP posts:
worridmum · 01/08/2018 14:43

To be honest if you have assets the worst thing you can do is get married, ie if my children have assets i would tell them not to get married and if they have no assets its worth getting married because you can legally take a massive slice of your partners assets on divorce.

Skarossinkplungerridesagain · 01/08/2018 16:34

I wouldn't get married without one.

He should spoken about it with you first though.

LoveInTokyo · 01/08/2018 16:39

Skarossinkplungerridesagain

Are you in England / Wales?

Because if so, they really don’t mean a great deal, other than in exceptional circumstances.

MsSquiz · 01/08/2018 16:44

DH and I have one. DH's family have a lot of money, whereas my family were pretty poor. To me it made sense for us to have a pre nup, it gives security to us both.

We have known each other since we were 16, been together 5 years and now married for 1.

My solicitor was great, he went through everything with a fine tooth comb, definitely helped me see certain parts of the pre nup clearer. For example, rather than "if we divorce I get £X" ours increases every 5 years, which made sense to us both once we thought it through.
There are certain assets that are "untouchable" and I agreed to that.

I also requested the inclusion of child maintenance payments in our pre nup (I was brought by a single mum with no financial help from my dad so this was hugely important to me) even though our pre nup is to be updated each 5 years or on the birth of a child, the previous pre nup stands until new terms are agreed.

Ours was signed the week before we got married, due to my mum dying 3 months before our wedding, and I had to sign a disclaimer saying I was happy going against the wishes of my solicitor to sign it that day, as it was (he felt I could "go for more")

It all depends on the assets and the people involved. And while they are not legally binding, a judge in a divorce would definitely take it into consideration

Skarossinkplungerridesagain · 01/08/2018 17:02

I'm in England and while I know they aren't legally binding judges have been known to take them into consideration in divorce cases.Though for me it's more about the willingness of a partner to sign one than actually enforcing it. I wouldn't want to be with someone who wanted to take my assets or who didn't want to protect their own. I'm a firm believer in 'you leave with what you brought'. It's probably worth mentioning I don't have children.

LoveInTokyo · 01/08/2018 17:05

You may be a firm believer in it, but the courts aren’t.

That said, if you have no children and have both led fairly independent lives (financially speaking) then the court may well be more inclined to take your prenup into account.

If you have one I assume you’ve already had all the legal advice though.

AngelsSins · 01/08/2018 18:12

Have you seen it yet OP? I’d be interested to hear if it’s fair and if he’s considered your assets as well as his own. I think that could be the deciding factor for me.

Skarossinkplungerridesagain · 01/08/2018 18:26

LoveinTokyo yep was all done through solicitors.

Original poster
staplegun88 · 03/08/2018 08:10

He printed it off last night and gave it to me. There are statements in it like 'X and Y warrant they are entering into this PN agreement entirely of their own free will and volition and expressly declare that they are acting entirely free from any kind of influence, interference, pressure (financial or other wise) duress or undue influence from any third party'

Well, he is pressuring me, so I cannot agree with it!

I do see the principle of it, and I have told him this. It would be sensible to list our separate assets (he has an old classic car for example which is obviously his, I have my CD collection etc), but what I really don't like is the fact he keeps going on 'I told you I would do this or we won't get married. And if necessary we can postpone the wedding date'

Er - No! We can't change the date, its just over 2 weeks away! Everything is in place and paid for!

I got a bit tearful as I tried to explain to him that he was being controlling over this and to slow down, sit together and discuss it properly. I said, ok, I will sign your bit of paper to make sure the wedding goes ahead. (knowing fully well that without legal advice, time, less than 3 weeks to go hewould be laughed out of court so me signing means zilch) I suggested we go to solicitor to do wills and do this at the same time. it got late, and I had to get some sleep...

He has gone off to work with barely a word to me. Not good considering we are supposed to be getting married very soon!

OP posts:
littleFearOfHumans · 03/08/2018 08:56

Women are always being told to protect themselves etc. Why shouldn't he?

How could this possibly be off putting?