To expect apprentices to look smart?

[sproodlemummy]

Currently interviewing for apprentices at our company, have so far seen 6 boys ranging from the age of 16-19. All except 1 of them has turned up in Jeans & T-Shirt!! WFT????

AIBU to expect them to look smarter?? Their parents drop them off so they are very aware of how they are dressed. My parents wouldn't have left me leave the house without a suit on for an interview.

The environment in which they could be working is not a suit based workplace, but still i'd like to see them make a bit of effort.

Is it a sign of the times and I'm just becoming am already and old fart???

Hear hear lovely.

I used to coordinate work experience at a school and it was eye opening how little guidance kids/teens got from parents on things like clothing. I would start making your expectations clear when you set interview dates. It's unfair that these teens are disadvantaged because of their parents. I feel your frustration though.

I once had a parent complain her 15 yo ds hadn't been able to go to the toilet all day while working at an architect firm. He didn't go because nobody told him he could and it didn't occur to him or his parents that in an office, if you need the loo you just go to the loo

Yes, in an ideal world they'd be smartly dressed, but the focus should be on whether they could actually become an apprentice.

There will be plenty of suitable candidates. It's up to each of them to prove that they are more suitable than the next.

I'd be more worried about their parents' dropping them off for an interview than what they were wearing!

Someone who dresses smartly is likley to create a better first impression as they demonstrate they are taking the interview seriously.

Certainly would give you an advantage.

In my opinion, you are not being unreasonable to expect the interviewees to look smart and to look like they have 'made an effort' to impress. That is what is expected at an interview. That is part of the interview code of behaviour, irrespective of the the job (although, there may be one or two exceptions).

I started another thread because I was really worried that my son would not have suitable clothes for the interview. The interview was for an apprenticeship with a car manufacturer. However, he did make an effort (with the clothes he had) and he stood up straight and shook the interviewer's hand etc.

Yet interviewers also need to be flexible in their attitudes. Most young people will have been taught about interview protocol at school. My son missed the last two years of school due to mental ill health. so I had to prep him for the interview myself. The interviewer did not know this. Yet if the apprenticeship was entry level, it is likely that some of the candidates may have similar disadvantages.

@RideOn On saturday was in charity shop clothes shopping, average shirt was £2, can wear with any trousers

So for less than a fiver you could be nicely kitted out in a full outfit.
And if you can only afford the shirt, then fine, Buy the shirt. Make sure it is clean and well-ironed. Tuck it into whatever bottoms you are wearing. Make the effort.

If I was so completely on the bones of my arse that I couldn't even afford the shirt, then I would ask the manager (of as many charity shops as possible) if they could possibly lend it to me, and explain why. Wear it, wash it and return it.

Because if a clean top was the only thing standing in my way for a job I clearly desperately needed, I'd make sure it wasn't in my way.

Where I work we stare at anyone who interviews for our team in a suit but we're developers and wear jeans (or shorts), trainers and a t shirt everyday.

Yesterday's jeans were blue, ripped boyfriend ones

I interviewed here in a tshirt style blouse, dark blue skinny jeans and tan ankle boots. The guys wore jeans and tshirt / shirt and jeans / a suit.

For my first job as an apprentice I wore a suit but there was no background on office culture as they were a new office in this country.

I tend to think you should dress a bit smarter than the job you are going for. I.e. Darker jeans, shoes rather than trainers and a nicer top.

My son went to his apprenticeship interview in the suit he had previously only worn at funerals.

Can someone please explain why simply showing that you have thought for longer than 5 seconds and made an effort to be presentable and prepared, in response to your application to work somewhere is "middle class privilege"?

I have a boy of a similar age. He doesn't have a suit and I doubt I'd be buying one as he's unlikely to need one for work for a wee while yet.

However. If he's going for an interview or some other occasion where he needs to be formal, then he has "smart" trousers he can wear. Or school trousers. Those and a cotton, long-sleeved shirt of any description and school shoes is what's appropriate for an interview or similar occasion, not jeans and a t-shirt.

"You clearly have no idea what it’s like to be in the position of some of these people. To take advantage of a charity scheme you have to know about it. To borrow from friends/family, you have to have friends and family that have that sort of clothes."

I work with "these people" on a daily basis and was making the point that has since been reiterated by many that when all is said and done, its a competitive process which requires you to show not only your suitability for a role but how serious you are to embark on it. The difference between 20 candidates can sometimes be the one who came a little early or looks like they made an effort. Particularly in an oversubscribed role where all have the same experience and previous quals. An effort can take many forms doesn't have to cost a penny - end of story.

Job centres, schools

yanbu, my workplace is very casual now so not an issue anymore but when I used to help recruit for a very professional business it would be an instant no if they turned up casual, no matter how good the interview.

Moving on from the clothes thing that I think the OP has been clear that a bit of effort should be put into appearance - how were the candidates otherwise OP?
Were they generally prepared/keen/enthusiastic?
Was it difficult to choose or have you got to make the best of a bad bunch?

Also I think we are all straying from the point, OP noted 90% of the turn out didn't dress remotely smartly, why has everyone decided they must all be from disadvantaged backgrounds?

I am reading this with interest as DS1 (17) is going into a tech based industry and HATES smart clothes with a passion. He is on work experience this week at a company that we have visited before and knew that all the tech staff where jeans and t-shirts. However, we agreed that on the first day he should wear chinos and a smarter t-shrt. Today, after spending the day there, he has gone in with jeans and t-shirt as he felt over dressed yesterday. We both think erring on the side of caution and dressing smarter on the first day is key. He will be doing degree apprenticeship applications over the next few months - all for tech based jobs. I will be making sure he goes in smart trousers, shirt (both just school type) and tie to the interviews. I realise when he actually works at these places, he may well be able to go in jeans, but I can't imagine sending him off to an interview in them!

I think I should mention that of the 2 apprentices we have so far, this is how we recruited them

1st apprentice - is academically very bright. As mentioned before he has just got his HNC

2nd apprentice - was sent via the government sponsored engineering apprenticeship. We knew at interview stage that he had quite bad dyslexia (he basically told us), however he was so keen to learn, was dressed smartly and came across very well. He was NOT from a privileged or well off background. He completed 6 months full time at college, apprenticeship wages paid for by the company. After he joined us full time he came to see us and said that he did not want to carry on with further education. He didn't enjoy it and found it very difficult, so we respected his decision and didn't push it. He has turned out to be an absolutely fantastic employee, he is flying and I could not be prouder of him. He may not be as "academic" as others but you only have to tell/show him something once and he has got it. He has a very very bright mind he just has difficulty is putting that onto pen & paper.

The candidates so far have been ok (ish). Some have been very very confident and some have been extremely nervous, but given their ages that is totally understandable and some have really not given two craps about being there.

We've decided to bring back a couple for 2nd interview. One of which was so nervous he could barely speak (he was 16), but we're hoping in 2nd interview he will be a little more relaxed.

Hmm, I do agree with the OP, I wouldn't let my child go to an interview in jeans and a t-shirt. I would get them trousers/shirt/tie from a supermarket for £30. I do appreciate that a lot of households don't have £30 to spend, which is fair enough and not much they can do.

Just looked on Sainsbury's website and you can get a pair of trousers, shirt and tie in the sale for a total of about £12-5 A charity shop is probably even less. Isn't this worth the investment towards getting a job? It's less than most monthly mobile phone bills! Or is it too much of an effort to bother?

Actually the guidance, such that it is, from the schools' careers advisor is likely to be to wear what is appropriate for the role.
Thus if your staff are wearing a t shirt and work trousers then a T shirt and jeans may be appropriate.
I suspect that you are providing polo shirts though which are a little more formal than an uncollared shirt so not unreasonable to expect that level of formality.
A tie for a job where no-one wears one is an unreasonable expectation IMO.

I would be harsher towards an adult job seeker because I would expect them to access help for obtaining a suit - I know it's tricky to get this from the job centre, but there are charities in my city that suit up people who can't afford smart clothing. Finding this out and getting a suit requires a bit of initiative and that's something that I value in my line of work.

I would expect my teens to show a bit of initiative also, if they can't show initiative in getting ready for an interview then why would you want to employ them? Being 16-19 doesn't mean you can't be clean and smart for an interview.

All the schools in our area have sixth forms, all have a dress code, none are grammar schools. My 19 yr old can easily fit into the clothes he wore in yr13, my 17yr old barely fits in clothes he bought a week ago he's growing so fast (and cannot fit into his brothers clothes because he is 5inches taller and several,sizes skinnier)

To the pp who said that they need £150 quid, you are talking rubbish. I bought my son a prom suit for under £40 from moss bros, and he frequently buys second hand online or from charity shops.

So many excuses being made for lack of effort. There will be a few teens that need help to buy or prepare for an interview but the majority will not. They lack imagination and effort and the resilience to work things out for themselves.

Yanbu at all, it's wise to turn up for an Interview dressed smartly. If they don't have the money, cheap black trousers from Asda, shirt. Or charity shop!

Why are so many posters patronisingly assuming these kids are poor? Some of them MAY be. But unless you are interviewing in a particularly deprived area, if 6 out of 7 people show up in casual clothes, it more than likely they simply don’t care about or understand the requirements.

i can't think why jeans matter.

Ive often said this at my work place and to be honest if they was living in poverty id consider a black tee shirt and a non ripped pair of jeans as reasonable but i deffinately do judge people who come for interviews not smart. Most people who know their kids are coming to the end of school can save up a tenner for a pair of cheapo trousers and a white shirt from Primark