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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To expect apprentices to look smart?

133 replies

sproodlemummy · 31/07/2018 10:06

Currently interviewing for apprentices at our company, have so far seen 6 boys ranging from the age of 16-19. All except 1 of them has turned up in Jeans & T-Shirt!! WFT????

AIBU to expect them to look smarter?? Their parents drop them off so they are very aware of how they are dressed. My parents wouldn't have left me leave the house without a suit on for an interview.

The environment in which they could be working is not a suit based workplace, but still i'd like to see them make a bit of effort.

Is it a sign of the times and I'm just becoming am already and old fart???

OP posts:
AlexanderHamilton · 31/07/2018 11:26

Kokeshi- actually this proves the point about the pointlessness of many school uniforms becasue if schools imposed a sensible uniform of any smart black or grey trousers, plain white shirt and optional jumper instead of logoes everything with brigthly trimmed blazers then maybe young people who are still at school would have something smart to wear.

But no 17 year old is going to want to turn up for an interview with his school logo shirt and trousers.

LookAtIt · 31/07/2018 11:26

sproodlemummy
What about my suggestion to include guidance on what to wear with the interview details that you send to applicants? It take the guess work out of it.

PurpleDaisies · 31/07/2018 11:27

What about my suggestion to include guidance on what to wear with the interview details that you send to applicants?

And for candidates without the ability to meet the dress code?

LookAtIt · 31/07/2018 11:29

PurpleDaisies
If it were me, my requirements would be casual.

HundredMilesAnHour · 31/07/2018 11:30

I don't think you're being entirely unreasonable OP. Jeans and T-shirt is a bit much (or less rather!)

By contrast, I work in office although we are semi-relaxed about outfits so it's smart business casual rather than full-on formal business dress (unless it's a serious meeting with Execs/clients/on TV etc). Our most recent 17 year old summer intern insists on wearing a 3 piece suit (with tie) to work every day. He puts the rest of us to shame. And he has more than one 3 piece suit! He is extremely dapper to say the least. He comes from a poor background but is trying really hard to make something of himself. (He works a part time job around his college hours to pay for his suits etc).

PurpleDaisies · 31/07/2018 11:31

lookatit
Look at all the other posts though. Most people are saying smart trousers and a shirt are required. Some candidates just won’t be able to turn up wearing that.

HebeJeeby · 31/07/2018 11:32

I once interviewed a young man for the RAF who came from a disadvantaged area. He turned up in a shirt and tie, the shirt was clearly too big and he apologised for this saying that he’d had to borrow one because he didn’t own a smart shirt. I was very appreciative of the fact that he had thought about it and gone to such lengths to prepare. To me it smacked of common sense and some insight about how interviews worked, especially as he was applying for a job that didn’t involve wearing suits. He got the job.

Original poster
sproodlemummy · 31/07/2018 11:32

@LookAtIt yes thank you that is a good suggestion Smile

@Clairetree1 who said anything about £150 worth of clothes????? All I asked for was a shirt and smart trousers/black jeans at a push rather than blue jeans and a pink t-shirt. I have said over and over again that I thought a suit was a bit OTT

OP posts:
PurpleDaisies · 31/07/2018 11:32

@LookAtIt yes thank you that is a good suggestion

What will you be stating as the dress requirements?

Skiiltan · 31/07/2018 11:34

So you’d go to a job interview for a company that doesn’t insist on formal office wear wearing jeans and a t shirt?

No. I'm 54 years old and own a variety of clothing. I'm not a teenager living with parents on a low income and trying to get my foot on the first rung of a career ladder. There are many possible reasons for an applicant for an apprenticeship not to own smart clothes. This shouldn't be a criterion on which their suitability for the role is judged.

Don’t be ridiculous. They can wear their old school uniform, sixth form uniform, funeral/prom/special occasion suit, dad’s suit jacket, friend’s shirt and tie, etc.

There is no such thing as a "sixth form uniform", except at some grammar and fee-paying schools and a few others that aspire to be like those. FE/sixth-form colleges don't have uniforms, as I have already stated. Most sixth-formers around where I work (area of high deprivation) wear jeans and T-shirts. There are no grounds for assuming that an individual teenager owns a funeral/special occasion suit, that his dad has a suit (or that it fits his son if he does), or that someone who doesn't own smart clothes will have friends who do.

They’re finishing school and beginning their careers, at some point a suit is going to be necessary.

Why? For weddings, perhaps. Yes, someone probably will want to buy a suit when he is earning money and can afford to buy one. There seem to be an awful lot of people here, though, who think that if someone can't afford smart clothes now he/she should never be allowed onto a training programme or to have a job. This country does seem very committed to perpetuating disadvantage and preventing people with low-income parents from earning a living or making a contribution to society.

adaisy1394 · 31/07/2018 11:36

An apprenticeship is a job and young people these days get taught at school how to approach job interviews so I think YANBU, apprenticeships are wrongly sold as the easy option and exceptions are given but apprentices should be treat the same as any other employee so a shirt and smarter trousers at least would be prudent.

However, when we interview apprentices, we do detail on the interview invitation that the dress code is smart which has a 99% success rate, obviously smart varies by peoples interpretation but it at least sets a precedent.

Wonderwine · 31/07/2018 11:39

Clairetree1 FFS - since when did a pair of chinos/black jeans and a shirt cost £150??

I completely agree with the OP - if you're expecting to interview with a professional company who are offering to invest in you then you should be seen to make an effort and show some respect by looking smart for the interview.
T-shirts rarely, if ever, look smart (except possibly if worn with a jacket on top). Even a smart polo shirt and dark jeans might be OK.

adaisy1394 · 31/07/2018 11:41

Also PP your post is just a load of rubbish there are even charities these days who loan smart clothes to disadvantaged people there are also charity shops, the ability to borrow clothes from friends and family. If you make an effort, you can look at least like you have tried without spending any money, no one here is perpetrating an unrealistic ideology onto disadvantaged people its all within reach for everyone to LOOK LIKE they have made an effort to create a good impression.

Apprenticeships are jobs, therefore competitive so in my eyes, a successful applicant should be seen to be taking the opportunity seriously and trying hard which doesn't have to involve spending a single penny, only making an EFFORT.

adaisy1394 · 31/07/2018 11:42

PP refers to Skiiltan - crossed posts, sorry!!

Skiiltan · 31/07/2018 11:42

Don't most sixth formers who are not wearing uniform have to wear "business smart" clothes?

No. Several people have already stated this.

In my area most schools don't have sixth forms. Most sixth-form colleges don't have dress codes.

elfies · 31/07/2018 11:43

If they're clean, neat and tidy , I'd be more interested in attitude and aptitude

senua · 31/07/2018 11:44

There seem to be an awful lot of people here, though, who think that if someone can't afford smart clothes now he/she should never be allowed onto a training programme or to have a job. This country does seem very committed to perpetuating disadvantage and preventing people with low-income parents from earning a living or making a contribution to society.

Absolute rubbish. It is possible to pick up some trousers and a shirt from numerous sources (supermarket, charity shop, borrow from friends/family) for a small outlay if you plan ahead.
If someone cannot be bothered then it shows a poor attitude. Employers are not social services; it's not their role to make excuses for poorly-presenting applicants.

PurpleDaisies · 31/07/2018 11:44

If you make an effort, you can look at least like you have tried without spending any money, no one here is perpetrating an unrealistic ideology onto disadvantaged people its all within reach for everyone to LOOK LIKE they have made an effort to create a good impression.

You clearly have no idea what it’s like to be in the position of some of these people. To take advantage of a charity scheme you have to know about it. To borrow from friends/family, you have to have friends and family that have that sort of clothes.

RideOn · 31/07/2018 11:47

YANBU, I've always dressed much smarter (than I would in the role) for interview. I have mostly seen people do the same.

Wonderwine · 31/07/2018 11:48

IME bright kids (however poor/disadvantaged etc) will know a degree of smartness is appropriate and will sort something out in one of the ways already suggested thus already demonstrating valuable thinking and planning skills.
OP - as you say, if someone really wowed you then you'd probably overlook what they were wearing, but otherwise, it's just a useful, extra filter to screen out the unsuccessful candidates...

Skiiltan · 31/07/2018 11:49

Also PP your post is just a load of rubbish

Thank you for your carefully considered rebuttal.

Apprenticeships are jobs, therefore competitive so in my eyes, a successful applicant should be seen to be taking the opportunity seriously and trying hard

We haven't been told how these applicants performed in their interviews. If someone who dressed smartly were to be offered an apprenticeship in preference to someone who gave better answers to the questions but wasn't dressed smartly, there would clearly be something seriously wrong with the company's recruitment policy. Taking the opportunity and trying hard means showing that you understand the role and have the correct attributes to fill it.

ShotsFired · 31/07/2018 11:49

I have interviewed many a person for many a role in my time.

Whatever the person is wearing, you can just tell if they have put effort into it. When all is said and done, the effort is what most people are looking for, not the actual outfit.

A t-shirt can be clean and well pressed, jeans can be belted, worn properly and not have trailing scraggy hems. Shoes can be clean and polished (even a bit of hot breath and a good buff with a tea towel). Bodies can be clean and fresh, hair can be combed, nails can be cleaned under. It's having respect for the appointment and showing you give a fuck for the person also giving up their time to speak with you.

If you really can't manage that level of basic cleanliness, presentation and effort, then I would hesitate to suggest you are ready for the workforce.

Tawdrylocalbrouhaha · 31/07/2018 11:49

I would prefer to see them make some effort clothes wise. However I would bear in mind that they are very young, and are applying for an apprenticeship (meaning they will be very badly paid)... I wouldn't hold it against them if they seemed otherwise motivated and keen to learn.

RideOn · 31/07/2018 11:50

On saturday was in charity shop clothes shopping, average shirt was £2, can wear with any trousers. Bet that cost a lot less than jeans and T-shirt. It doesn't have to be expensive, just dressing appropriate to the situation.

Lovelytreeoutsidemywindow · 31/07/2018 11:50

The middle class privilege on this thread is staggering.
Yes, in an ideal world they'd be smartly dressed, but the focus should be on whether they could actually become an apprentice. No wonder social mobility is so appalling and there is such a gap between rich and poor.