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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think this is a bit off....But not sure why.

461 replies

Shortstuff08 · 30/07/2018 15:33

So, I had to go get the morning after pill today. I went to a high street retailer that has a pharmacy. They had a sign saying they provided it.

The woman behind the counter asked me if I was wanting the free one or to pay for it. I said that I assumed I would have to pay. She went away and came back and said they didn't provide the free one. I said that was fine and she told me that the Pharmacist would come our to see me in minute. A man approached me and asked if I was waiting. He then told me that he 'couldn't' provide MAP. I asked if they didn't have any and he said 'no, we do, but I can't give it'

Fair enough, I went to another high street store. Spoke to the Pharmacist there, she asked me a few questions about medication I am on and the gave me it. I said I was relieved she could as the other store couldn't give me it and thought I would spend all day looking for somewhere. She asked me where I had been and then said that some pharmacists, don't give it out due to religious purposes.

I don't think that's ok. If it's your job, how can you refuse on religious grounds? Or are some Pharmacists not able to administer it? Or am I being an arse in thinking that you should just do your job?

OP posts:
BertrandRussell · 01/08/2018 16:43

"if you really believe the MAP is a form of abortion or contraception and are against that ethically, should you lose your job?"
If you think it's a form of abortion, you should go back to pharmacy school.

Lizzie48 · 01/08/2018 16:47

We actually don't know that the pharmacist refused to dispense the MAP because of his religion. He might have done, but it could also have been a lack of training. The OP didn't ask for his reasons.

I don't know what can be done about this. I would think that a good many pharmacists are Muslim or Catholic and would therefore refuse to dispense the MAP. You could change the regulations for NHS staff, of course, but most pharmacies are private businesses, and quite a lot are owned by Muslims these days.

Yes, you could take them to court. But do you really want Muslims not to open pharmacies because they're unwilling to dispense the MAP but don't want to be sued ?

Original poster
Shortstuff08 · 01/08/2018 16:51

Another person may have gotten upset and gone home and ended up with an unwanted pregnancy.

This is the point as to why people should complain. Not for themselves, I am fine. It didnt traumatised me. But I have a 14 year old daughter who suffers with anxiety. If she was in this position, in a few years, I know she would have probably panicked and not been able to pull herself together enough to go somewhere else.

Hopefully my daughter would come to me, like she does now with problems. But there are other girls out there that don't have anyone, feel unable to turn to anyone etc.

Someone needs to speak up for them

OP posts:
Original poster
Shortstuff08 · 01/08/2018 16:52

Yes, you could take them to court. But do you really want Muslims not to open pharmacies because they're unwilling to dispense the MAP but don't want to be sued ?

No I want people to do their job with making judgment calls based on their own opinion, rather than professional reasoning.

OP posts:
Original poster
Shortstuff08 · 01/08/2018 16:54

Lizzie48 also Pharamacys may be private. However, Pharamcists have a working charter that they must adhere to. It's on page 3 of this thread.

OP posts:
bluecitygirl · 01/08/2018 16:55

After working in a local chemist, you need training to dispense it, it really have just been they have not renewed or taken that training.

BertrandRussell · 01/08/2018 16:59

I didn’t think Muslims were opposed to contraception?.....

Lizzie48 · 01/08/2018 17:00

I agree with you, OP, but that doesn't mean it will happen. There are a lot of pharmacies run by Muslims these days. Muslim women are speaking out more now and that could make a difference eventually, but that's a long way off; imams do tend to be men, and the same goes for RC priests.

Lizzie48 · 01/08/2018 17:03

Maybe they're not opposed to the idea, @BertrandRussell but a lot of Muslims don't approve of women using contraception against their husband's wishes.

And it depends on whether they see the MAP as a contraceptive or an abortifacient.

lapenguin · 01/08/2018 17:05

@shortstuff08
Did you confirm with the pharmacist in question that his religion is the reason you were turned away? Or did you not mention the religion and just stated you were unable to access it from that store at that time?

Original poster
Shortstuff08 · 01/08/2018 17:05

Lizzie48 it will never change without people speaking up, though.

Even if a religious person owns a pharmacy, if their working regulations aren't adhered to, they shouldn't own it.

OP posts:
Original poster
Shortstuff08 · 01/08/2018 17:05

lapenguin I think it's quite clear in my op.

OP posts:
BertrandRussell · 01/08/2018 17:06

“Maybe they're not opposed to the idea, @BertrandRussell but a lot of Muslims don't approve of women using contraception against their husband's wishes.“

A) that’s not a tenet of their faith
B) they shouldn’t be working as. Pahrmacist if that’s what they think.

JacquesHammer · 01/08/2018 17:07

Contraception is a complex issue in Islam and there are various schools of thought.

However it is halal to sell items that have a legal use, which includes the MAP and other contraceptives.

NotAnotherHeffalump · 01/08/2018 17:11

You might be entitled to the morning after pill, but the pharmacist is entitled to his beliefs.

NotAnotherHeffalump · 01/08/2018 17:16

You aren't 100% sure that they was the pharmacists reasoning behind turning you away. There seems to also have been some confusion around payment.

Winterbella · 01/08/2018 17:18

The Bakery in Belfast was a different issue, If they had refused to make the cake at the initial phone call and said sorry we can't take on your cake order and left it at that (which is what the pharmacy did with you) it would not have been any sort of discrimination, because they refused to make the cake after the agreed the contract and sighted religious beliefs at that stage that's where the legal challenge has been able to proceed. Also that case has not fully concluded so again nothing has changed.

Original poster
Shortstuff08 · 01/08/2018 17:21

You aren't 100% sure that they was the pharmacists reasoning behind turning you away. There seems to also have been some confusion around payment

No I am not. Which I have made clear. It still happens though, which is the issue. Don't know what was going on with issue of payment. Someone has said on this thread that not all pharmacies can do the free one. But since I made it clear I was happy to pay, that's not the issue

OP posts:
NotAnotherHeffalump · 01/08/2018 17:30

If someone has strongly held beliefs you can't expect to be able to force them to act against their beliefs to make your life more convenient. You got the morning after pill. The pharmacist (who we are assuming refused you on religious grounds) got to act in a way that wasn't totally against his faith.

I wouldn't want to live in a country where people are forced to do something they believe is wrong.

JacquesHammer · 01/08/2018 17:31

If someone has strongly held beliefs you can't expect to be able to force them to act against their beliefs to make your life more convenient

But why can they choose a job where they get to force their beliefs on others as some sort of judgement on morality?

Lizzie48 · 01/08/2018 17:32

I agree that it's important to speak up about this, though. I have 2 adopted DDs (now aged 9 and 6); I would hate to think of them in the position of being refused the MAP if they needed it. (I obviously hope they will always feel able to approach DH or me, but I know that teenagers don't always feel able to talk to their parents.)

BertrandRussell · 01/08/2018 17:33

"I wouldn't want to live in a country where people are forced to do something they believe is wrong."

If he can't do the job, or make satisfactory alternative arrangements which do not inconvenience his customer, then he should not take the job. Simple as that.

Original poster
Shortstuff08 · 01/08/2018 17:43

Winterbella and pharmacists have a charter to adhere to. Which states decisions about treatment should only be made using professional judgement.

OP posts:
lapenguin · 01/08/2018 17:47

Yes I am aware, I thought however that inbetween starting this thread and sending the email you might have had his reasoning confirmed as that email could lead to further investigation etc and to implicate someone when you don't know the full reasoning for their refusal is unfair.
Also I know the company said this shouldn't happen but maybe the person responding to the email wasn't aware that they could refuse based on their religious beliefs, it doesn't seem to be common knowledge.

Original poster
Shortstuff08 · 01/08/2018 17:55

I am asking the company. I have outlined what happened and asked them to look at it

They don't seem happy I was turned away but have passed it on to the head of pharmacy. Who will know.

There is a possibility that conscientious objection no longer exists and the charter supports that. I am having it all clarified.

I have not implicated anyone on anything. I have recounted the situation, factually and asked them to look into it. If he hasn't done anything wrong, there's nothing to worry about.

Also I have been working today. I don't have time to nip into town and hope he is free so I question him further. Why should I have to? He should have given a full explanation at the time.

OP posts: