To think this is a bit off....But not sure why.

[Shortstuff08]

So, I had to go get the morning after pill today. I went to a high street retailer that has a pharmacy. They had a sign saying they provided it.

The woman behind the counter asked me if I was wanting the free one or to pay for it. I said that I assumed I would have to pay. She went away and came back and said they didn't provide the free one. I said that was fine and she told me that the Pharmacist would come our to see me in minute. A man approached me and asked if I was waiting. He then told me that he 'couldn't' provide MAP. I asked if they didn't have any and he said 'no, we do, but I can't give it'

Fair enough, I went to another high street store. Spoke to the Pharmacist there, she asked me a few questions about medication I am on and the gave me it. I said I was relieved she could as the other store couldn't give me it and thought I would spend all day looking for somewhere. She asked me where I had been and then said that some pharmacists, don't give it out due to religious purposes.

I don't think that's ok. If it's your job, how can you refuse on religious grounds? Or are some Pharmacists not able to administer it? Or am I being an arse in thinking that you should just do your job?

What if the pharmacy was made to pay for their taxi to and from another pharmacy. Would that be acceptable to you?

And who is paying for that? The NHS?

If the Pharamacy as a business it made to fit the cost, then you can bet conciemous objection will not last long.

And why should the woman have to do that. Have the taxi driver know he is picking someone up to take for the MAP. Because they will know the Pharamacy will have to set up and account with a local taxi firm, it won't take long for people to know when the pharmacy books a taxi it's to transport for MAP.

Why is the freedom to impact others with your religious choice, more important than women's?

Or is your only acceptable solution the one which also eats away at our liberties?

Your solution eats away at our liberties!

So funding must be magically raised to pay for taxis so the woman has to travel! Ok I gotta go eat a late lunch but seriously!

But you seem to be too stubborn to accept that maybe other solutions are worth trying first

I’m just wondering with an NHS on its knees financially, where the money is coming from? Or indeed private pharmacies. Is it a good business model to pay a pharmacist who won’t do all the role entails and have to spend more money? Where will the money come from? More expensive products?

I’m not saying men are always the enemy. However MAP and abortion are always a women’s issue.

@Shortstuff08

Of course it wouldn't be the NHS. Pharmacies are private, and a lot are independent. They are not funded by the NHS. They get money back for medicines etc, but they shouldn't be allowed to claim back for that. It would be a good solution while they changed the restrictions on the sale of the medicine to allow other staff to process it. Or until they bring in rules to ensure every town has easy access to a pharmacy which will always dispense it.

It is a small impact, for the greater good of maintaining our right to freedom of expression. If you cannot understand that then there is no point in debating you. Repeating "women's right" over and over does not negate the fact that you are willing to give up civil liberties to obtain those rights. It's a stupid trade and I hope most women would be smart enough to not support it. Not when we have alternatives.

It is a small impact, for the greater good of maintaining our right to freedom of expression. If you cannot understand that then there is no point in debating you. Repeating "women's right" over and over does not negate the fact that you are willing to give up civil liberties to obtain those rights

Disagreement does not equal lack of undertaking.

HTH

Forcing your religion on someone is NOT a civil liberty.

I know a pharmacy is a private business, that's why I said If the Pharamacy as a business it made to fit the cost,

@MarcieBluebell

It has nothing to do with the NHS. Pharmacies make their own money. Payments come our of their profits.

My gran was entitled to cancer treatment, but had to travel as she couldn't get the care at her local hospital. When my son needed surgery, we had to travel as they didn't perform it at my local hospital.
We have to travel for medical treatment all the time. This really isn't a big deal or an unreasonable ask. But giving up freedom of expression... If that is your acceptable solution then i hope you're not in any position with power over policy.

Sorry this happened to you short

Its bang out of order in my opinion

As others have said its time sensitive so ringing round all the pharmacies to find out if they will dispense it is ridiculous

As is driving up hill and down dale to get it

If its in stock it should be given to you

We have to travel for medical treatment all the time. This really isn't a big deal or an unreasonable ask

It isn’t a big deal or an unreasonable ask if it is a medical need.

If you’re being forced to travel because Chris/Christina goes to church on a Sunday? Yes it is unreasonable.

@Shortstuff08

Freedom of expression is. No one forced their religion on you. Did he reprimand you for your choice? Did he insult you? Did he try to convert you? No.

You just had to go somewhere else. And that's the problem. Not his refusal- but you having to go elsewhere. So let's solve that instead of taking away freedom of expression. They pay for the travel or the restrictions are changed so the other staff can dispense it. Easy solve. No freedom of expression removed. Our rights are saved.

@NaomiNagata, I traipsed around for 5 hours by foot and bus because most of the local pharmacies I could get the phone numbers of weren't answering (we'd just moved house, so no Internet access or phone book and this was before I had a smartphone so not easy to put together a large list of numbers), a couple of pharmacies told me they had it but neglected to mention they had no pharmacist who would dispense it until I turned up or that it was out of stock, and several referred me onto other pharmacies nearby who had also either run out or wouldn't dispense it.

I literally tried every pharmacy I knew of that I could travel to because I'd either been referred on or I hadn't been able to reach them on the phone and was desperate. I never managed to find a pharmacy who would dispense it to me so then waited until 11 PM at our hospital's walk-in centre.

I don't think it should be the case that if someone requires a common medication urgently, they are unable to get it from multiple pharmacies and none of the pharmacies are able (or in some cases willing!) to refer on to somewhere that definitely does have it.

I've worked in NHS pharmacy for years and it is indeed true that if the pharmacist in charge doesn't agree with the morning after pill on religious grounds then they don't have to give it to you. I completely disagree with the policy and think that they should sell it regardless of religious beliefs, as it is legal to buy it. It's the equivalent of a cashier not selling you pork at the counter because they're muslim. It's not up to them what you eat or how you live your life. It does annoy me.

People having to travel for treatment to different hospitals isn't the same thing at all. If the treatment isn't available it isn't available.

In the OP's example the treatment was available at the pharmacist's shop, the pharmacist just refused to sell it to the OP because of his personal religious beliefs.

He is imposing his personal belief system on another person. Where are the rights and the liberty in that scenario. Seems very lacking in rights to me, the woman's rights that is. Nothing changes and it was ever thus.

Freedom of expression is. No one forced their religion on you. Did he reprimand you for your choice? Did he insult you? Did he try to convert you? No.

He didn't express an opinion. He refused my treatment, because of his interpretation of his religion. Which is an opinion. When you are making decisions for others, who have not asked you to make the decision, then you are forcing it on someone.

@anon138 there's a good possibility that it has changed. @hugandroll linked some info on page 3 of this thread.

So are you saying it's OK for a pharmacist to refuse to dispense any contraception at all?

You just had to go somewhere else. And that's the problem.

That was not a problem for me. But it is for many others. And rather than inventing loads of rules and costs, to get around it a Pharmacist should just abide by their charter. That's all decisions should be made from a professional point of view. That a Pharamicist personal opinions should not influence treatment given.

I have had an email response from the company.

The 'Head of Pharmacies' is getting in touch. As 'this should not be happening in our stores and we are sorry for any delay in treatment this caused you'

It's not a long email, but at least it's something. Have to see what the head of Pharmacies has to say.

There are lots of medical proceedures that are not carried out by trained staff on religious grounds and I don't see this as an issue as people should not be forced against their will, in these situations though there are other people who perform these tasks where religion is not an issue for them so the service is not interrupted.

I would assume there is a level of training needed to be able to supply the MAP to people and that this guy just wasn't trained enough and they were more than likely understaffed.

We have to travel for medical treatment all the time. This really isn't a big deal or an unreasonable ask.

There is an almighty difference between having to travel hours to get yourself or your child to specialist medical treatment and someone have to unexpectedly and possibly secretly having to access the MAP.

It's a really complex issue I think. For an observant RC, abortion, contraception and the morning after pill are aboslutely not acceptable in their faith. As faith is about beliefs, principles that you live by, it is hard to tell someone they have to do something.
As a teacher, if it was legal to use corporal punishment on children, there is no way I would ever do it, whoever told me to.I was a Deputy Head and would probably have been one of the staff whose responsibility that was when it existed. Should I lose my job if that was the case? Would I be entitled to say no because of my principles?

Our local RC secondary school does not operate a condom and sexual health clinic, every other secondary in the local authority does. Should they be allowed to refuse to have one and deny their pupils access to the nurse and sexual health worker advice other teenagers can access and which can be accessed outside of school? Or should they be made to have a clinic?

In a war how would you feel about conscientious objectors? They were despised for sticking to their principles when other young men were dying but their principles were anti-war, that no one has the right to take a life.

I think religion muddies many waters but if you really believe the MAP is a form of abortion or contraception and are against that ethically, should you lose your job?

if you really believe the MAP is a form of abortion or contraception and are against that ethically, should you lose your job?

You should think about that before you take the job.

I would assume there is a level of training needed to be able to supply the MAP to people and that this guy just wasn't trained enough and they were more than likely understaffed

But with explanation whilst not ideal, that situation is acceptable.

Denying the MAP as a moral judgement isn’t.

As a private enterprise though it isn't against the law to refuse to sell to anyone despite your reasoning. As it stands I could open a business and only engage with every third customer, I'm not doing anything illegal. If it were a GP or a hospital you could complain about them not serving you but not a pharmacy really. I'm not by any means saying they are right but unless the legal framework changes they can't be forced to provide the MAP.

As a private enterprise though it isn't against the law to refuse to sell to anyone despite your reasoning. As it stands I could open a business and only engage with every third customer, I'm not doing anything illegal. If it were a GP or a hospital you could complain about them not serving you but not a pharmacy really. I'm not by any means saying they are right but unless the legal framework changes they can't be forced to provide the MAP.

That's actually not true. Again take the bakery in belfast.

Well done Shortstuff. Don't let it go. Another person may have gotten upset and gone home and ended up with an unwanted pregnancy.

I dont think he should be allowed to reject your request based on HIS religious beliefs but if he has the right at the very least he should have got a colleague to deal with you.

Make sure you tell the company that you wont be using them again.