More of a WWYD but I need answers please.

[FatTory]

New neighbours next door. Been there about eight weeks. I’ve introduced myself and say hello but they keep themselves to themselves. Young couple (early/mid twenties I’d guess) with a baby. I was woken in the middle of the night by shouting screaming and crying. Then there were lots of big crashing like sounds. I’m worried that someone was being hit or had things thrown at them. The woman was the one sobbing hysterically saying “why are you trying to ruin my life”.

They’ve been out all day but I was wondering if I should ask her to come and “help” me with something so I could get her on her own and ask if she needs any help? But what if she was the one being violent? I really don’t know what to do.

This could be just a one-off, really bad argument that might never happen again. It’s early days, so I would wait it out for now, but I would keep my ears open for anything else.

Definitely worth befriending her though to make sure she’s ok.

When you have an argument with someone, you may speak over one another, use an angry tone of voice, even raise your voice, speak faster, that kind of thing, but when you're shouting and screaming and crying that's not and should not be a normal argument. It's not. It's a fight or something else, but it's not an argument.

This. I can't remember the last time or if ever I had an argument with anyone that involved screaming or throwing things. Crying yes, but the other two are not normal. 50 years ago or so, men slapping their wives during an argument was also considered normal, as was corporal punishment of kids at home and in schools. Thankfully we have moved on since then. A household where parents scream and throw things is a horrific environment for a child- fact. No two ways about it. Even if they aren't removed by social services, those sorts of 'arguments' will damage the kid.
glint you need to stop normalising abuse.

I’m another one saying yes contact the NSPCC. Instincts can often be right and the banging and crashing are worrying enough to alert someone. They will talk you through it, you can say if you want it to be anonymous. If it’s the first time it’ll probably just get a visit or alert to health visitor, not sure what the process is.

However if there is any history of abuse you could be really helping. You aren’t to know so just make the call, carry on keeping an eye but make no judgements yourself.

And if this was a once off, it’s no harm to have it nipped in the bud. It is not interfering! This is the main reason serious abuse goes on. People don’t want to poke their noses in. But we should!

And then I’d just say hello, offer her a cup of tea in a nighbourlynway.

I was told by my health visitor (in a dv situation myself at the time), that everyone has the odd argument, but if it happens a lot, it doesn't make for a good enviroment for children. Arguing should not involve raised voices, never mind throwing objects. That shows a lack of self control and a level of aggression that would be viewed as worrying, if witnessed by children, who are often terrified by that sort of behaviour. She told me even if he didn't hit me, things like screaming in my face, were still abusive.

Roughly the hv's words/gist of what she told me, and she's been working with families and making reports to social services for years.

Ha ha. This is nothing really. Come and live where I live.

You think it’s funny Gwen ?

Honestly, I'd probably take a 'wait and see' attitude for the moment. Then if it happened again, I'd call the police whilst it was going on and then, later, ask the wife in for a cuppa, or initiate a conversation 'over the back fence'. Start general conversation and see if she says anything.

I tried the 'gently befriend' thing once years ago and it doesn't always work. I was told to fuck off by the victim when I tried to hint that I was there if she needed support. So the next time it happened (and the times after that), I called 911 (the USA 999) and let them deal with it.

Oh, the victim shouted at me and said that I shouldn't have called the police. That the 'right thing' to do would have been for my DH to have come upstairs, pulled her abuser off her, and beat the shit out of him and that DH 'wasn't a man' because he 'hid behind the police' (double ). Bear in mind that we had no relationship with her at all other than 'Hello' in passing.

Don’t be daft peak. I don’t know what makes you or bluntness think you have the authority to define an argument. Its not a decision for you to make, it’s simply a difference of opinion. Not everything unpleasant is abuse.

OP ’ve worked in a role regarding safeguarding children and adults. It takes on average a woman to be asked 17 times if she’s in a DV relationship before she will admit it.

I'm not sure why you asking us what you should do if this is apparently your field of expertise ?

Screaming and shouting impacts babies brains.

No one is saying it screaming and shouting is good for babies but you can’t intervene in every situation that isn’t good for babies for Christ’s sake. You still haven’t said what you think the NSPCC will do or advise about it? It’s just virtue signalling, stick in a phone call and pat yourself on the back. Your deluding yourself that you’re assisting in any way.

@glint in your world you should just never intervene unless you see someone hitting? It’s alerting agencies that are professionally trained to identify abuse / parents not coping. People having the courage to pick up the phone should be patted on the back.

glintandglide you honestly think the OP has no real interest in helping and is only interested in virtue signalling? Wow. What a nasty cynical view of the world you have. Don't judge people by your own standards, sometimes people actually care. The fact you think the argument described is normal probably explains your hideous interpretation of the OP's motivations. Shame on you.

You've worked in Safeguarding and you came here to ask what to do?
Really?

Oh give over mattberry. Stop being so weird.

I’m not even referring to the OP (who has gone) but sourpath, who keeps suggesting a phone call to the NSPCC but seems to have no idea how they could help.

Do you know if they rent or own? We had similar many years ago in the rented flat above ours. I was worried she was being murdered, so I knocked on the door. He answered and said everything was fine. I asked if I could see her too and she called through to say she was fine, but wouldn't come to the door. I look back and think I was a naive 24 year old who should have known better and called the police. Anyway, I told the rental agency (same as ours). They did a spot check and found doors off hinges and broken furniture. The couple moved out after that. It haunted me for months afterwards.

glint Maybe where you're from, screaming so loud your neighbours can hear specific phrases through the walls, and throwing things etc, is the norm. But it's not good for kids to hear or see their parents fighting like that, and that's the view ss would take, if they recieved a report. They'd probably want to keep an eye on the family.

The nspcc can advise if they think a situation warrants a phone call to the police or social services, or not. A domestic incident call out by the police, with children present, would result in an automatic ss referal (happened to me, but I was the one who involved the police, it didn't go anywhere).

There's nothing weird about my attitude. I merely have faith in people. You should try it.

No wicked, it’s not the norm where I am from. I just have a bit more life experience and emotional Intelligence than some of the niave posters here, I reckon.

Yes Matt, it is weird to tell a total stranger on an Internet forum they should be ashamed of themselves. Weird and says a lot about your personality, tbh

I wouldn't approach her - why are you assuming she is the victim?

It's horrible but perhaps 'why are you trying to ruin my life' was her raging at the baby after throwing things around? Or at her husband? Given that she might be the abuser, mentioning that you herd it won't help anyone.

If you're genuinely concerned re safeguarding then a call to NSPCC is your best bet.

Having been or seen people go through hell and back, doesn't mean you can trivialise things that are also abuse or bad, because worse things happen. Knowing screaming and throwing things during arguments is wrong, etc doesn't make anyone naive or of lower emotional intelligence?

I also thought the mum was maybe shouting at the baby

Of course it does. How limited must your emotional intelligence be not to understand the ways people can behave under times of extreme stress?
You reckon most Divorces aren’t preceded by a few screaming matches? Of course it’s not ideal for the child. Neither is the divorce. Doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen, every day, up and down the country, amongst all types of people.

@DerelictWreck and @WickedLazy I was thinking the same, that the Mum could be shouting at the baby :-(