AIBU to not want to be the 'household manager' anymore?

[FudgeJungle]

First post but long time lurker. I know there are lots of posts like this one, but would like some advice as feel stuck.

For context, both DH and I are teachers, and we have 3 children between 4yrs and 10yrs old. I have recently returned to full time work after nearly 11 years at home as a sahm.

Over this time at home, I've picked up all the childcare admin and all the housework manager type stuff. DH is happy to do housework but has to be told every time and won't notice things need doing unless it is absolutely obvious (i.e. piled up washing up, overflowing washing basket).
I also do all the stereotypical man jobs (sorry to be sexist, but trying to paint a clear picture) so all the DIY, painting, maintenance, fixing, etc.

I have been trying for several months now to get DH to take on more of the 'mental load' of the house and children, now I am at work. My DH is very happy to do any jobs, but I have to tell him everything . I knew there would be a period of adjustment, but he really still waits for me to tell him to do stuff.
I have had growing resentment over it, but two recent conversations have really been the last straw for me. Firstly, he recently went around one of his colleagues houses and commented to me about how dirty it was, and how he wouldn't ever live in a house like that...... but he doesn't use his initiative at home! And secondly, this morning, when I tried yet again to talk to him calmly about using his initiative, he says that I've always done it or told him to do it, and that I can't expect him to know what needs to be done. He said I wouldn't know what he does at work, so how would he know what needs to be done at home.

I was so stressed by the end of term, that I decided for 5 days that I would not do any housework bar getting the kids sorted, cooking and one load of washing up per day. I also did lots of childcare admin during this time, so booking school meals, buying uniform, anything the kids needed etc. I hoped that as things built up around the house, he would see they needed doing and do it, but that didn't happen.

Having said that, for those 5 days, I felt like I'd had a proper break for the first time in a long time, I spent quality time with my kids, I read a whole book, and my brain felt calm - I felt like a new woman. Now, I don't expect to feel like that all the time, but I know that if he did things without me asking, it would really reduce my stress levels.

I don't want a cleaner. There's not so much that needs doing around the house that we can't manage it between us, as long as we are both doing it. My children also have a couple of age-appropriate chores each, like making their own beds, tidy their own toys, so they are a big help.

I said that if I printed out a list of what needed to be done housework-wise, would he look at it, and he said yes, but really I'm not sure that he would. And how do I share childcare admin?

Has anyone managed to crack a system of doing this? Or do I just continue to tell him everything? Why are women so often in this position? AIBU to never do housework again if I feel better for it? What's the point if no one cares but me?

Perhaps a 70/30 split is more accurate if you are also taking on 100% of the mental load.
If you stick everything on a list then there is no 'mental load'

What I did about it was I went to a lot of conferences and I went away on my own to gigs and literary festivals. This forced my husband to change because he was left running the house. I never organised anything for him while I was away, or even phoned him. I started this when my dc were about the age of your children.

This changed our relationship and I think we have more understanding and respect because of it. He still can't organise holidays though and I still find that feeble and useless.

Youre a teacher? Please. Plan and action.

why do so many women end in this position?
I think it's because we're physically in the house more, so all those things that need cleaning are right in our faces, then both partners get into a routine and it's a shock when women go back to work that the other partner has to up theor game.
My husband gets annoyed at all these 'small tasks' but that's the stuff of life!
One thing that seems to work is showing the consequence of NOT doing these tasks, if possible. It's bloody hard work!

He's lazy. Detach. Do fun things for you and with the kids. Leave him out/behind. He'll either set up or opt out.

Stop organising him. He can work out that hoovering needs doing every 3 days or whatever. He just cant be bothered.

Do fun things for you and with the kids. this is really true. Half the things I've booked this summer, like a fishing taster session for my eldest two kids I've booked for him to go with them..... why am I not bloody going?

Thank you everyone for your thoughts, given me a lot to think about.

Thank you for this thread - my own fuckthatometer (cheers, PP) has gone in the red section last year, after being stuck in the orange for years, and it's been an interesting journey.

DH and I work FT, mine is longer hours. Always has been like that though, so I've spent 15 years reminding, list writing, etc. Over the last 4 years or so, I just became unattracted to him, partly b/c I saw myself as a parent to both DS and DH and the infantilism of "tell me what to do and I'll do it" just killed it for me.

The crunch point came last year when he went away for about 6 weeks and I found my life w DS as a single parent 100% easier than w DH. When he came back I suggested we separate b/c I can't go on like that. He knows what needs doing, I don't need to remind him, he plays dumb and he's not. He chooses to "see" things at work and not at home.

He did change. Because it's happened before, cyclically, and then would slide back again, I don't quite believe it yet. So the jury is still out, but it's been the most sustained period of change for the better so far.

All I am saying is that any real behaviour change seems to take years. Why is it like that? ... social conditioning - his parents did all the "seeing" (and the doing) for him and never taught him to. So as an adult, he couldn't even identify that there is a problem. I honestly refused to enable it further, but it took all this time and me giving up for the penny to drop. I hope your journey is shorter than mine and I look forward to further posts here - I find them healing

Fuckthatometer - love it. Also 42

He said I wouldn't know what he does at work, so how would he know what needs to be done at home

Nonsense. He knows full well what needs doing, he just doesn't want to. He lives in the house with you, he sees what needs doing. It's a bullshit comparison. Hence why he's made all the right noises in the past but then never changed - this way works for him!

If he waits for you to tell him what to do there's a chance you'll just decide it's easier to do it yourself rather than having to talk him through very last thing that he ought to be doing, or you won't specifically ask him to do every stage of a job (ie the washing up thing) so he can be half arsed about it with a primed excuse knowing you will probably give up next time and just do it yourself so it gets done properly.

Either way, more Xbox time for him. It's lazy, manipulative bullshit.

Alot of people have given good advice already.

Not saying your husband shouldn't do more, but a couple of things struck me about your OP. You're both working FT, you're a teacher, so earn decent money, and he obviously earns enough for you to have not worked for 11 years.

Yet you don't have (a) a dishwasher (you talk about washing up) and (b) a cleaner?

Both working FT with 3 children, think you really need both of those and that will make a big difference.

When I was 10 unloading the dishwasher was basically the task that my sis and I always did. By the time I was in high school I also changed my sheets and put my clean washing away so you're not too far off that with the eldest.

I think you also need to be careful to not be a martyr (which the not getting a cleaner thing sounds like) and not be a perfectionist (which the not cleaning the sink thing sounds like, to me anyway!).

He's a cocklodger, simple as that.

A worthless little manchild who cannot carry out simple, everyday tasks.

OP - do you sort out all Christmas, birthdays etc for his side of the family? If so leave that to him now. Obviously do tell him so he has no excuse not to do it.

For heaven’s sake get a cleaner! You’re both teaching so on decent salaries and your children are school age so only wraparound care needed, not full time childcare- so it really should be affordable. It will take away a lot of the stress

Secondly, dont be too harsh on your dh because for 11 years you were at home, looking after the children but also taking on the bulk of the household stuff while he was sole earner. Presumably that worked well for you both- you now need to both adjust. He’s clearly not lazy, he was prepared to be sole earner for over a decade! And is also clearly doing household jobs - so it’s not that he’s not putting the hours in, It’s that he’s needing a system to manage things

You’ve had some good suggestions on here about that but fgs get a cleaner- now

Just to answer a few things.

We don't have a dishwasher because one won't fit in the kitchen. We rent and I am hoping to move in the next year or two and a dishwasher is high on my priority list.

Not wanting a cleaner is just because I felt uncomfortable having someone else in the home, but actually after having thought lots and reading all your posts, this is just something I will have to get over.

I think you also might be right givemesteel about perfectionism, I think I have to get used to lower standards than when I was at home.

I dont think he's lazy, but I think his attitude needs adjusting maybe, or maybe I need to lower my standards. Need to find the balance.

Its been useful to read your advice and experiences though, as I worried I was being unreasonable.

TBH a cleaner is just another thing for you to manage.

I have this problem, not with my husband as he doesnt live with me, but with my almost adult kids. I got totally sick and tired with the " But I forgot" or "I lost track of time". So I wrote out a chore list with who does what every day and then I collected up all of their phones. For my youngest son, he got reminders at 4pm to do homework. Then at 6pm its feed and walk the dogs. 8.30pm bring down dirty washing. 9pm shower and brush teeth. Then every saturday, at noon he is reminded to hoover the hall stairs and landing and tidy the garden.

My eldest son has his own list of chores with reminders set to them....dishwasher twice daily, brush downstairs daily. Bring down washing, clean toilet and bathroom on saturday.

It is now at the point where they have built new habits and even if the phones are dead, they do the jobs with a good success rate. I wish they could just have done it but it just wasn't important to them. The phone alarms and reminders have really helped.

It could be worth you doing it. Then he has no excuse!

This scenario - except stbx works two days a week and I am full time - has ruined our marriage.

Do something about it now because there being one passenger and another hard worker - and the resentment - can cause very serious damage.

Just sharing what has evolved for us.

We clean half the house each once a week (alternate upstairs plus stairs and lounge, and downstairs/rest of house). I refused to remind him or nag him. Ultimately if he doesn’t do his bit it shows up any issue. Also, if I don’t want to do it I don’t - but will catch up later in week or do superficially, more in depth another time. He takes on all the laundry and ironing. I do the online shop (we alternated the shop when we used to go to Aldi as more time consuming). I cook four days, he cooks two, we have one ‘help yourself’ night. I do more of the dishwasher/kitchen tidying (because I hate laundry and am grateful he does all that). He does/did admin for a couple of extra-curriculars, I do school admin. He does cars, I do holidays. Its a work in progress but I just keep a check on anything that is making me resentful and try to address it. I also think as the kids get older it is important to share the emotional bits of parenting, so I did ask him to have a fatherly chat with one dc recently . And am kind of hoping he realises how much of this he abdicates to me all the time. . With little ones it was ‘ask Daddy this time please’ repeatedly.

I completely sympathise and the mental load thing does annoy me. I felt the same when I went back to work after mat leave (so not quite the same, DH was already cooking etc, but I had been the one to sort the laundry, dishwasher, meal planning/online shopping and anything DS related eg meal planning, doc appointments).

I drew up a chore list like what you've referenced in your OP. It didn't quite work, but it forced us to kind of unofficially take on certain areas of the house. So now, I tend to do 99% of the laundry, DH does all the cooking, we alternate weeks of meal planning and ordering the shopping, I tend to do more tidying, and I would say we split the unloading of the dishwasher. DH hoovers once a week. We do have a fortnightly cleaner, but if we didn't I would say the best thing to do is divvy up areas, so eg you do the kitchen, DH does the bathroom.

I've learned that there has to be a clear divide of "my" and "your" chores, otherwise one person will end up doing it all - in your case, you, as you take the initiative.

Would that be an option? Clear boundaries of chores, so if eg the laundry is DH's, if he doesn't do it, it doesn't get done. I know it might mean at first that things go a bit wrong eg kids PE kits aren't clean, but it makes him accountable. Choose wisely, i think we've all got things we're more likely to do well.

I do sympathise with the mental load though. I still do more of the admin side eg applying for DS's nursery place, sorting doc appointments, planning/reading up on potty training and setting a date to do it etc. But I've accepted that DH is just not very proactive when it comes to that kind of thing. He does all of the "donkey" work around the house though, eg putting furniture together, gardening, drilling, decorating, in addition to the chores listed above. I'm hopeless at anything that involves tools, so we all have our strengths and weaknesses.

Good luck!

Getting a cleaner. I also don't like having someone in the house on a regular basis. It drove me mad when I had one, so I now book a company to come once a month, or once every half-term and they do a deep clean. There are four of them and they stay for one hour, so it is one hour of inconvenience for four hours of lovely clean home. It is amazing what this does to keep the house on track without the bother of a weekly 'thing'.

Twelve years ago I very seriously broke my ankle two days before Christmas and was told that if I did any weight-bearing on it (after having it pinned back onto my leg on both sides) in the following seven weeks I would have serious problems so I had to sit for seven weeks with leg up. Youngest DC was 1, eldest was 6. DH had to do just about everything (I could obviousy still do the headspace planning). He told my DM (not me!) that he had no idea just how much I did (we both worked). It completely changed his atitude to how the household is run and he is now utterly brilliant - truly 50/50 since then. Bit extreme, but it was an unexpected benefit of my accident!

TBH a cleaner is just another thing for you to manage.

So give it to OH as one of his jobs? :)

I hope your charts / divided chores work. I would advocate giving him one or two big chores, e.g. cooking and shopping. Shopping goes with cooking so he had to take on that mental load.

We split things. So one person manages laundry the other good shopping (two biggest jobs). It doesn’t mean doing it all but means mentally being on it.
Dh looks after the kitchen cleaning and bins.
Me the bathrooms and bedrooms.
For dc hobbies we split too. Me swimming him football me afterschool club him cycling etc.

Most of the solutions here involve the OP still managing the man, by telling him what to do. How does that help the situation?

I would definitely encourage splitting the hobbies. You allocate him the ones he cares the most about - with my ds I decided swimming could be a Dad thing, and told dh who agreed strongly he should do swimming lessons. It took at least 6 Months and there would be conversations about activities and parents would say what their kids are doing and I’d be oh yes he will do swimming, dh is organising so I don’t know when. I told dh that when he wanted to look st it I could search local fb groups for recommendations and screenshot them for him. (That was all I did - no reading and distilling the top couple of options etc) . It was crystal clear to him that if he didn’t do it our son wouldn’t do swimming classes , and that I would neither organise nor ‘protect’ him- in conversations friends would know ds didn’t do swimming because dh never arranged it.