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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Who is unreasonable here? Custody.

41 replies

MrSpock · 25/07/2018 18:53

This is happening to a family member. I know her side far more than his but I’ve tried to write this in an unbiased manner.

A couple, let’s call them Sarah and Tom, were dating for two months. Both uni students. Sarah unexpectedly fell pregnant. Tom wanted Sarah to get an abortion, Sarah refused. Toms very posh family tried to bully Sarah into an abortion, Sarah refused and was very offended as they know her family are catholic and she is against abortion.

Sarah and Tom try to make the relationship work but several issues arise. Tom is from a posh family and Sarah is working class, and comments made by Toms family about council houses around Sarah make her feel uncomfortable. Tom is also very close to his mother, to the point that he will not do anything without his mother’s agreement and opinion first. Sarah is unhappy with this. Tom also wants to know what Sarah is doing every moment of every day and bombards her with texts, getting abusive if she doesn’t reply fast enough. If Sarah retaliates, Tom complains to his mother who chastises Sarah.

On two occasions, Tom is violent towards Sarah including coercing her into a sexual situation.

Sarah has pregnancy complications which mean she is at risk of early labour, and Tom decides to leave the country and tell Sarah he doesnt feel he can cope with a baby.

Sarah tells Tom she’s had enough, and to leave her alone. Tom responds by sending nude photographs of Sarah to his friends, sending text messages to her threatening suicide and threatening her. He accuses her of having an affair.

Sarah cuts all contact. Tom suddenly decides he wants to be on the baby’s birth cert. Sarah says no. Tom decides he wants to be at the birth. Sarah says no. Tom then bombards Sarah with abusive phonecalls.

Sarah has her baby without Tom. She tells Tom he can visit, at prior agreed times and only when she has a family member with her. Tom does this but ignores the child and uses the time to insult and berate Sarah. Sarah cuts all contact and tells Tom she doesn’t want him near her or the child.

Sarah stays in touch with Toms parents and allows them to visit occasionally. Tom continued his university course and did not offer to pay any maintenance to Sarah. Now Tom has finished uni he has expressed an interest in visiting the child. Sarah meanwhile dropped out of university in order to support her child, and has another partner and a new life. Sarah’s partner treats Sarah’s child as if he were the child’s father.

Sarah agreed but on the grounds that she not be there and so left the child with her mother on the day Tom came. Tom quizzed Sarah’s mother about Sarahs partner as he had apparently seen on Facebook she was in a relationship, and also sent Sarah messages regarding this and told her he still loved her. Tom also went home after an hour even though Sarah had arranged for the entire day.

Sarah now doesn’t feel comfortable with Tom seeing the child, as she feels Tom is using the child to get to her. She also feels she is happy and settled and doesn’t want to upset her life. She’s also annoyed he’s never paid maintenance.

However Tom tells anyone who will listen Sarah is a horrible ex who won’t let him see the child.

Who is being unreasonable? I feel quite strongly that it’s Tom who’s behaving like an idiot, but would welcome others opinions.

OP posts:
Rinoachicken · 25/07/2018 18:55

I’d say if he wants contact with the child then it needs to be through this a contact centre.

Thedutchwife · 25/07/2018 18:55

Obviously it’s Tom

PotteringAlong · 25/07/2018 18:57

Can Sarah set up contact at a contact centre so there are records of Tom turning up etc and tom can prove if he wants to be involved or not?

And, seperate to contact, Sarah needs to contact the CMS about money

MrSpock · 25/07/2018 18:58

I suggested a contact centre might be a solution, but she’s quite set on no contact. I can’t say as I blame her, he’s an arse.

OP posts:
OwlinaTree · 25/07/2018 18:59

Tricky one.

Toms behaviour towards Sarah is clearly out of order. He should be paying maintenance too.

However, it was not Toms choice to become a father and he is probably not ready and has no experience of parenting. I'm assuming they are quite young.

I think the contact through a third party is the best idea, but a contact centre would be better then it's neutral. Plus Sarah should pursue maintenance.

Caselgarcia · 25/07/2018 19:00

I'm not clear of what Toms intentions are? Does he want to be involved with child ? From your post it seems not as he doesn't pay maintenance and shows not interest in the child.

MatildaTheCat · 25/07/2018 19:00

Tom has behaved illegally at least three times. Tom is an abusive idiot. Tom needs to pay maintenance in spite of this. Tom does not deserve contact unless he proves his commitment to his child and can treat Sarah with respect. That seems doubtful.

Sarah should keep a record of all abuse and if necessary log it with the authorities.

BlueBug45 · 25/07/2018 19:01

I hope Sarah has logged some of Tom's previous harassment and violence with the police. If she hasn't and he is still sending abusive messages she needs to get them logged.

Sarah is in the right to refuse to deal directly with Tom. She has allowed him child contact by leaving the child with her mother and should do so for a bit longer. The child will need to know when they are older that their mother didn't refuse contact but dad eventually decided to fuck off. She should also get evidence to show this in case Tom goes to court.

Sarah should block Tom on all social media and only agree to contact via email.

ellendegeneres · 25/07/2018 19:04

However, it was not Toms choice to become a father oh don’t people get tired of posting this shit!?

SandyY2K · 25/07/2018 19:04

It's a no brainer. Clearly Tom is being unreasonable.

MrSpock · 25/07/2018 19:05

I think Tom wants to be involved but only when he feels like it. I know originally Sarah tried to get him to agree to 1 in 4 and he said no because he wants to travel, take job opportunities, and have fun with his friends. That was before he finished uni though and I don’t know what’s been discussed since.

I don’t think she logged it with the police, but I know she kept screenshots of the suicide threats and the ones where he threatened to kill his family because of her Hmm.

I agree Tom is an abusive idiot and she shouldn’t have to deal with him directly, I think I’ll try to suggest the contact centre again to her.

OP posts:
OwlinaTree · 25/07/2018 19:06

However, it was not Toms choice to become a father oh don’t people get tired of posting this shit!?

I was quite clear that he has a responsibility towards his child. I was saying this as it may explain why he's not doing a very good job of parenting during contact. I think that's a reasonable point.

ThreeIsACharm · 25/07/2018 19:09

Please tell sarah to go to the police.
It is illegal to force sexual contact. Send revenge nude images and be violent.
She need to protect herself and her child from this man until he grows up and corrects his behaviours.

AnneLovesGilbert · 25/07/2018 19:11

If he’s bothered he can arrange to see the baby in a contact centre. He’s taken her offers of involvement and shat all over them.

How old is the child now?

Teachtolive · 25/07/2018 19:12

I wouldn't have my child around someone who was physically, verbally and sexually abusive, regardless of how they were related to my child.

Allthatsnot · 25/07/2018 19:14

Tom is an abusive moron.
Sarah has hopefully reported in full his behaviour to police including the assaults and harassment, if she hasn't she should do it now even if it isn't currently happening.
Sarah is perfectly entitled to not allow him access if she feels it is detrimental to the child. Hopefully she has kept all his messages etc and having them logged with police will make the case stronger should she need it.
I personally would also not apply for maintenance if she can afford to.
Block him on everything, ignore any attempts at contact, report any unwanted attention/abuse and let him apply for mediation/court if he wants.

Leeds2 · 25/07/2018 19:14

I would arrange contact at a contact centre, and ask a family member to attend with the child. If this happens, for the first few occasions, ie Sarah isn't there, I would predict he will soon lose interest.
She should also contact CMS re maintenance.

MrSpock · 25/07/2018 19:15

The sexual assault incident was years ago, she was upset about it at the time but brushes it off now. Tom basically forced penetration despite her saying no and only stopped when she slapped him around the face. He then told her it was a joke and she should lighten up.

She confided in me and my mother, we told her that was rape and she should report it, but she didn’t want to go through the embarrassment of a potential rape trial and so she didn’t do anything about it.

It’s that incident that is the reason I really dislike Tom, as much as anything else. I think he’s clearly shown he doesn’t respect women.

OP posts:
Bimgy85 · 25/07/2018 19:16

It's clearly that Tom here is being unreasonable. Poor sarah. Tom is clearly a manipulative abusive bastard. She has done all the right things and clearly has been raised right. Unfortunately some mothers do have them

brainepson · 25/07/2018 19:17

Tom should FTFO as he is using the baby to control Sarah. Sarah though should maintain the moral high ground but with some ground rules, so Tom can see the baby if he abides by those, e.g. she will not tolerate rudeness or insults or abuse of any kind.

MrSpock · 25/07/2018 19:18

The child is now three and a half, and has a very lovely step father and loving mother. He’s very happy and doing well.

OP posts:
SandyY2K · 25/07/2018 19:21

He's an immature fool really. He thought Sarah would be on her own with a baby...well now another man is helping raise his child and do what he couldn't or wouldn't. Shame on him.

Some woman will marry him in the future and believe his nonsense.

I'd tell anyone he spouted that nonsense from him that he's been abusuve and you have the evidence...if he wants to carry on lying then I'd let him know through those third parties...that I'll be showing people the messages and how he's not shown interest in his child.

He clearly hasn't grown up in all these years.

catkind · 25/07/2018 19:23

Yeah, pursue maintenance and use it towards sharing cost of a contact centre. From what has been said so far Tom sounds like a waste of space, but for the child's sake he should be given the chance to step up. Given previous abusive behaviour, doing that in a way that gives him no access to Sarah or her family is necessary. I'd lay odds he will not take up the opportunity and will continue to mouth off about her stopping him seeing the child, but at least Sarah will have the benefit of knowing 100% she's offered the chance. And also looks better if Tom at some point decides to take it to court, which given rich family he might.

Graphista · 25/07/2018 19:25

"However, it was not Toms choice to become a father" sex can lead to babies - if he's old enough to have sex, and clever enough to go to uni he KNOWS this.

Personally I would be refusing contact too - he's clearly not interested in the child and is an abusive rapist creep! BUT he still needs to pay maintenance so she needs to get onto cms.

Quartz2208 · 25/07/2018 19:29

No maintenace no contact

and it should be through a contact centre

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